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Crush Live O8 No.1: Preflop Selection and Live Lows

BartBart Posts: 5,126AdministratorLeadPro
edited September 2014 in Crush Live O8 Videos
In the premier episode of CLO8 Bart goes over a preflop hand point count system that he thinks is an effect way to learn the game. He also breaks down complicated low boards when getting counterfeit and explains the use of the term "live low". Episode posts at 2PM ET.

http://www.crushlivepoker.com/videos/preflop-hand-selection-and-reading-live-lows
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Comments

  • AdministratorAdministrator Posts: 747Administrator
    Here's a PDF of the Hutchison Point Count System (attached)

    Also, the website is here:

    http://ehutchison.homestead.com/OmahaSystem.html
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,059SubscriberProfessional
    weeee... cant wait to watch...
    by 1Aesah
  • neverlearn2 Posts: 2,654Subscriber
    i brought up the point system before to someone. i guess its a good basic starting point but what i got from it is its a very nitty style.
  • TomBayes Posts: 81Subscriber
    Haven't had a chance to watch the video yet.

    I used the Hutchison system when I first played micro-stakes online O8 several years ago. It's good to keep beginners from playing too many hands and to think about why you play some hands and fold others, but I'd just think of the system as training wheels and not something you are going to follow to the letter.
  • khalwatkhalwat Posts: 997Subscriber
    edited September 2014
    NEVERLEARN2 said:
    i brought up the point system before to someone. i guess its a good basic starting point but what i got from it is its a very nitty style.
    Bart mentioned that the context is full ring loose passive live games. With that in mind, nitty is the right style.

    Like any other game, open it up if people are playing too tight, or it starts to get shorter handed.
  • BartBart Posts: 5,126AdministratorLeadPro
    TomBayes said:
    Haven't had a chance to watch the video yet.

    I used the Hutchison system when I first played micro-stakes online O8 several years ago. It's good to keep beginners from playing too many hands and to think about why you play some hands and fold others, but I'd just think of the system as training wheels and not something you are going to follow to the letter.
    Sure. I think it is a very good starting point, however, for people totally new to the game although I think it can be useful for experienced players as well. I looked back at the chart maybe 5 times over the summer in the 75 game. Obviously I don't follow it down to the T but there were some hands that I thought would be useful to know the point count rating.

    There are also clear flaws in the system as well and I point those out in the episode. I think the most important thing you can take out of this first show is getting the concept of "live lows" down.

    Bart
  • OldGuyTom Posts: 28Subscriber
    When I first learned to play O8 in Michigan everybody at the Casino would use the "live card" language. At showdown it was customary to turn over hands and state I have a "live 3" for low, two pair for high , for example. When I went to Vegas or California on summer trips I found that almost no one used the terminology. I also found that the average low-limit (up to 10-20) O8 player in Michigan was light years ahead of their Western counterparts. Reading and understanding Low's instantly is the first step to competence in this game. Watch Bart's video's, and especially absorb how to think about "Live Low's" It's a vital first step in learning the game.
  • Dusty Posts: 232Subscriber
    i played a good bit of O8 6 max, 1/2, 2/4, 3/6 this weekend on Bovada with the point count system up and by sticking to it you avoid many of the gray areas in O8 where I tend to bleed money. I found it most useful when out of position or in the blinds. With all systems, learn the system and then add your own spin and gravitate away from the system when the time is correct.
  • BartBart Posts: 5,126AdministratorLeadPro
    One of the things that I regret not mentioning in this video but I will in future ones is that the strength of live lows drastically differ according to what is out there on the board. For example a live low on an 8 high (4 cards bellow 8) board is shit. A live low on a 5 high board can be the second nuts. For example board of A245K. 56 or a live 6 is the second nuts here. It beats 36 and 67. On a board of 5678 a live ace is total crap. You lose to A2-A4, 23, 24, 34 and 35 for the 8th best low.

    Bart
  • GhostDogGhostDog Posts: 328Subscriber
    Bart

    I'm interested on your thoughts on the Hutchison point count system and how it translates to PLO8. Is it the exact same or does it change at all? I'm also curious on weather there are any plans for any PLO8 content? Thanks for bringing other game content to the site.
  • OldGuyTom Posts: 28Subscriber
    Bart said:
    One of the things that I regret not mentioning in this video but I will in future ones is that the strength of live lows drastically differ according to what is out there on the board. For example a live low on an 8 high (4 cards bellow 8) board is shit. A live low on a 5 high board can be the second nuts. For example board of A245K. 56 or a live 6 is the second nuts here. It beats 36 and 67. On a board of 5678 a live ace is total crap. You lose to A2-A4, 23, 24, 34 and 35 for the 8th best low.

    Bart
    Wait, this is only half right. A245K -- 5,6 LOSES to 3,6 here. First hand is A2456. Second hand A2346. The 3,6 is better than the 5,6 right ???
  • BartBart Posts: 5,126AdministratorLeadPro
    Right, my bad. 36 is actually the second nut low and a live 6 is the third.

    Bart
  • BartBart Posts: 5,126AdministratorLeadPro
    GhostDog said:
    Bart

    I'm interested on your thoughts on the Hutchison point count system and how it translates to PLO8. Is it the exact same or does it change at all? I'm also curious on weather there are any plans for any PLO8 content? Thanks for bringing other game content to the site.
    I'll probably do a PLO8 video on the site at some point but honestly there is much more action in LO8 games. PLO8 should be a dead game and it is hard to sustain itself in a casino format since the bad players basically can't win inside of a single session.

    I would not recommend Hutchinson for PLO8 games. Hands like AKQ2 go way down in value in a deeper stacked cash game and low run downs like A234 and 2345 go way up. PLO8 tournaments play similar to LO8.

    Bart
  • neverlearn2 Posts: 2,654Subscriber
    I'm sure everyone here could read a low right but one way I was taught was to count backwards and lowest number wins

    Example A2356 is 65321. A2346 is 64321. Since 64321 is the lower number it's the better low.

    Bart in live what are considered low limits? I play in a 6/12 kill game is this considered low and should be treated as if I'm playing a 1/2 NL game?
  • chilidog Posts: 2,404Subscriber
    Nl2-
    Did I teach u that? I posted that exact thot on this forum a year or 2 ago. I think it was in the articles forum.
  • neverlearn2 Posts: 2,654Subscriber
    Really? I saw it on 2p2 when I first started to play and kept getting confused on why 7-A low would lose to a 6-2 low
  • kom Posts: 225Subscriber
    +1 to PLO8 content, please.
  • VernonJones Posts: 178Member
    Bart
    Does this mean we are not frying a PLO high video every 2 weeks now. ?
  • BartBart Posts: 5,126AdministratorLeadPro
    We are doing a three week rotation on thursdays of PLO, Tournaments and O8. You can always take a look at the content schedule here: http://www.crushlivepoker.com/schedule

    Bart
  • khalwatkhalwat Posts: 997Subscriber
    edited September 2014
    GhostDog said:
    Bart

    I'm interested on your thoughts on the Hutchison point count system and how it translates to PLO8. Is it the exact same or does it change at all? I'm also curious on weather there are any plans for any PLO8 content? Thanks for bringing other game content to the site.
    It's semi-relevant, in that it teaches you what a good starting hand is. In PLO8, your mistakes are magnified due to the bigger bets -- and you're also getting to showdown a lot less than in O8 (hopefully in part due to your skillful play ;) ).

    In PLO8 the more experienced you are, the more you can widen your range vs. less skillful opponents. It's very similar to Limit Hold Em vs. NLHE: you're going to showdown more in limit, so hands with better hot and cold equity are more useful in the limit games. Whereas implied odds hands are not as useful because you're never going to be getting someone's entire stack.

    Quartering people with wheel-wrap kinda hands is also a huge source of money in PLO8 because people are just never folding their naked nut low, and you're going to get stacks in fairly often. That doesn't happen in O8 (people still won't fold naked nut low, but you're not getting their stack).
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