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Why snap folding is usually > tank folding

UntreatableFPS Posts: 1,004Subscriber
edited November -1 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
When you make a call on the turn planning to fold the river, are bet folding for value, or say to yourself that you will fold if your opponent bets the river, just snap fold. Do NOT think about it.

Because:
1. Mentally, it's a lot less painful to let your big hand go when logic ahead of time dictates that it will be a bluff catcher if bet into/raised, and you'll feel good about losing the least when you snap fold. But when you tank fold, it hurts if/when your cards finally hit the muck
1. If it's a big hand and a painful laydown, you might talk yourself into making a bad call because you don't want to let your big hand go
2. If you snap fold, your opponents won't think it's a big laydown. If your opponents don't think you're capable of making big laydowns, they'll be less likely to bluff you. This means you can actually fold more confidently when you have a big hand that's a bluff catcher and have to worry less about being bluffed
3. Some skillful opponents are capable of feeding false micro tells to trigger your subconscious call reflex when they have a big hand
4. Keep the game moving. Don't waste everybody's time when you already decided that your hand would be a bluff catcher if you got bet into/raised

So stop tanking and keep the games moving, people

Comments

  • CruelUltimatum Posts: 160Subscriber
    Makes sense, though I call BS on point 3.

    If that's true, then we should all direct our energy towards developing those skills. Sending false microtells to trigger a subconscious calling reflex?

    That sounds outlandish, especially for most of us who play at the $5 blind level.
  • UntreatableFPS Posts: 1,004Subscriber
    It's not that hard. Human beings look for excuses to call so any sudden jerky movements trigger the call reflex. Or if you're doing something constant like shuffling chips, abruptly stooping triggers the call reflex
  • Fish Fryer Posts: 161Member
    Claire -

    I like a lot of what you write and I appreciate that you are working diligently on improving your game. However, call reflex? I've played a lot of poker and I've never once had a sudden urge to call based on my opponent suddenly making a "jerky movement". If a movement by your opponent or stopping shuffling chips etc... convinces you to donk off money, there is a larger issue going on.

    Sometimes I want my opponent to think I can make a huge lay down so they bet into me down the road.
  • UntreatableFPS Posts: 1,004Subscriber
    Sometimes I think it's easier to play if everybody thinks you're on the stationy side. Because then, when the pot gets big and they're showing strength, you don't have to level yourself into thinking you're being bluffed if you know that they know that they think you're calling when you have a real hand.

    It minimizes tough decisions when people bluff you less, don't you think?

    I used to convince myself to call whenever I saw someone do anything that might indicate discomfort. That's why I mentioned it
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    I like to try and take the same amount of time regardless of my hand strength.. This allows me to not give off any tell when I have an easy decision or a tough one.. Only the really really tough ones do I take more time.. Otherwise Its the same each time..

    no timing tells for hammah!
  • Philly Dave Posts: 114Subscriber
    I dunno... I guess I agree with the big hand stuff but I am barreling with air a lot too and when I get re-popped I don't always want the fold to look trivial. I guess it depends on current image or w/e but I am all for a fairly quick and low drama fold in most spots.

    I do make some hero calls on occasion and there is just no way around it. I have to tank a little to re play the hand sometimes. If this ends up being a tank fold so be it. Not sure I buy the Mike Caro calling reflex thing in this regard. I'm pretty decent with LOL live reads and playing back the hand. If I hero call it's based on this I'm pretty sure not subliminal messages from Villain. Just my opinion though.
  • Philly Dave Posts: 114Subscriber
    wendy weissman said

    I like to try and take the same amount of time regardless of my hand strength.. This allows me to not give off any tell when I have an easy decision or a tough one.. Only the really really tough ones do I take more time.. Otherwise Its the same each time..

    no timing tells for hammah!
    What value is there in a timing tell that closes the action? You mean as far as tipping villains as to whether you folded a good hand or a air? I usually think of timing tells within the hand not in a metagame sense. Just curious.

    For what it's worth I actually intentionally use timing tells within a hand. Against fish the insta call to get free cheap turns. Against more experienced players the same call as a reverse tell when I am letting them value own themselves... I do the snap "im on a draw" call sometimes.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    I used to call too quickly with weaker hands and tank with either tough decisions or big hands.. I want to protect future hands by not letting someone think that my insta fold means I was uber weak and try to make plays at me later.. I might in fact be handreading and instantly know I am no good but if I insta muck I think the avg player would assume I didnt have anything.. Next time they might try something..

    I also think that many players will think that if you tank you have something good enough to call down with and many times they will check river giving you a free showdown.. This of course is dependent on villain but I always try not to give off any tells about the strength of my hand..

    I will say that for I think the first time purposely (spelling?) I started taking alot to the porter when I wanted someone to fold after I check raised them on semi bluff. as soon as I started talking the player insta mucked saying "big hand huh?" lol

    ww
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