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Two tricky spots facing polarised river bets

JGC Posts: 8Member
edited December 2014 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Hey guys, played this hand tonight. The game is 2/4 (Euros) and my image at the table is loose aggressive as the game started off 4 handed and I won a few big pots. It is now full ring. (Note, originally posted two hands but after a lot of confusion on the first one I removed it)

I have A♦K♦ in mid to late position. I make it 20 over a limper and get 4 callers. The flop is K♣8♥2♣. Checked to me and I bet 68 into 102. Everyone folds except the BB who I would describe as a break-even type player. He started the hand with about 650 and I have him covered. Turn is a 2♠. He checks and I bet 140 into 240. He quickly calls. River is a 9♠. He thinks for about 5 seconds and moves all-in for 410 into 520. I think this can only be 88, 22, or a busted flush draw. There are a few things I considered here. Would he call such a big turn bet on a paired board with a naked flush draw? Possibly not, but my image was loose so it isn't impossible. Does he play eights full or quad deuces this way? Probably, but they're aren't many combinations of those hands.

So I'm getting a little over 2 to 1 on my money. Really looking forward to some feedback on these hands, any criticism is welcome and if you want any more detail that I may have forgotten just let me know.


Comments

  • neverlearn2 Posts: 2,862Subscriber
    First of man you Gotta write out your stuff a little different, make it easier to read.

    Hand 1 I'm betting turn and c/f river.

    Hand 2 well played hard to fold river but he is never doING that with a hand you don't beat.
    by 1JGC
  • JGC Posts: 8Member
    edited December 2014
    Thanks mate, I'll edit the post to be a little more readable.

    In the first hand I can definitely bet the turn but any amount I bet makes it impossible to fold the river. Even if I bet just 100 into 240 then his river bet would end up being 60 into 440, so obviously I'd have to call.

    In the second hand I think you meant to say he is never doing that with a hand that I CAN beat, right? And if so it is because his river bet is so big?

    Anyway thanks for the input.
  • pokertime Posts: 2,194Subscriber
    +1 write bullet points not essays

    Hand 1: if you think button is weak you should have RR PF. You had someone left to act behind you. As played fold.
    Hand 2: WP, Fold. He is never doing that with a hand you DO beat.
    by 1JGC
  • JGC Posts: 8Member
    Okay thanks. In hand one the pre-flop raise was standard. It wasn't until he under-bet the flop that I sensed some weakness. I agree on hand two. It just felt a bit too tight at the time.

  • beauregard Posts: 1,592Subscriber
    HAND 1
    Hero has J Q in bb
    Button raises to 22. Hero and UTG call.
    pot: 68
    Flop: T 9 3
    Hero check/raises BTN's 26 c-bet to 80.
    UTG cold calls. BTN folds.
    So what's utg calling with? Most likely, SD, FD, set, 2-pair or top pair good kicker.
    pot: 248-ish
    Turn: J
    Hero checks. (How are we not betting this?) UTG checks.
    Here, UTG would bet made hands (set, 2-pair and straights like 78) but check flush draws and weak hands that have a T or 9 in them.
    River: Q
    Hero checks. UTG shoves for 160.
    Hero?

    IMO, Hero butchered this hand so bad - I don't know what to do.
    Why are you check/raising the flop if you're not betting the turn?
    On the turn, hero should bet of at least 100 - hoping UTG shoves all in - because he would want to call!
    On the river, Vil could have a whole slew of hands including a straight with T8 or KT, a smaller 2-pair like QT or top top with A Q!
    Which one is most likely? I dunno.

    i guess i'm folding because the K and an 8 is totally in his range.
    But in the future, I'd recommend not check/raising if you're not going to commit to the hand. The whole point of bloating the pot is for you to take it down. I don't know how you consider yourself "loose aggressive" when you overbet one street and then check it down to the river. Here, that's called spew and it's bad. Players in our games will try to steal your pots almost every time your raise one street and check afterwards.
    by 1JGC
  • maphacks Posts: 2,009Subscriber
    edited December 2014
    which place is this?

    I think if the preflop raiser was to call in hand1, hero would be very likely to continue betting turn and river. with the coldcaller it makes it a little trickier but with your description and the given spr I would just ship it in on the turn and expect to get called here by some worse hands. when he calls this flop instead of reraising I don't think he has a set all that often so pretty much the only hands i am worried about are JT and 78.

    hand2: It really depends. the place where i play right now, i would call it against most recs. they too often come up with really weird played hands like busted clubs or KQ but i can imagine a lot of situations/villains where this is a fold
    by 1JGC
  • JGC Posts: 8Member
    edited December 2014
    Sorry Beuregard, I took a lot out of the post for brevity. I should mention that UTG was really clueless and unpredictable while BTN was a bit nitty.

    On the turn I think my J is good. I know he will never fold a better hand. I think he has a T which he might fold to a bet, but if I check he will probably just bet out with a T. I ended up calling and he had QT which seemed to be some kind of value/bluff hybrid.
  • beauregard Posts: 1,592Subscriber
    JGC said:
    On the turn I think my J is good. I think he has a T which he might fold to a bet, but if I check he will probably just bet out with a T.
    The First Rule about Poker: bet your hand
    The Second Rule about Poker: bet your hand

    :lol:
    by 1JGC
  • JGC Posts: 8Member
    Haha, I won't argue with that!
  • JGC Posts: 8Member
    Maphacks, this is a casino in Germany. I think I gave the wrong idea in hand one. UTG was really clueless. His flatting range on the flop is actually more top pair type hands than monsters.

    For hand two I know exactly what you mean with recs showing up with weird hands. And it definitely could have been busted clubs.
  • Roth2012 Posts: 15Subscriber
    edited December 2014
    Is it in Berlin? I will be staying there for my Christmas vacation and will be playing 2/4 NL there. Maybe we can meet and chat a little? I have never played there and heard the rake is super high.
    JGC said:
    Maphacks, this is a casino in Germany. I think I gave the wrong idea in hand one. UTG was really clueless. His flatting range on the flop is actually more top pair type hands than monsters.

    For hand two I know exactly what you mean with recs showing up with weird hands. And it definitely could have been busted clubs.
  • JGC Posts: 8Member
    The rake in Berlin is high. 5% capped at 20 I think. Maybe less. i'm in Frankfurt, so if you're going to be in that area let me know and we can have a chat.
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