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Call a fist pump jam?

napncrash Posts: 177Subscriber
edited November -1 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
HERE WE GO!

2/5 game, limped pot, you have 55 in earlyish position. Six ways... pot 30.

Flop: As 5s 2h

Couple of checks, I lead for 20. Two callers. I'm sandwiched.

Turn Kd. First guy checks, I make it 55. Yappy, arrogant guy in late position loudly insta-shoves for 475 total. First guy folds.

Come into the tank with me... action is to us...thoughts?

Comments

  • eselspiel Posts: 115Subscriber
    Bet more flop and turn to get value from an ace.

    You lose to AA,KK,43s thats 10 combos

    You beat 22,AK thats 12 combos.
    Not to mention beating other overplayed two pair hands.

    You can adjust based on how often you think the opponent might limp wiht AA,KK,AK

    Seems like an easy call.
  • whatsyourplay? Posts: 752Member
    I guess I would call here, but I am not happy about it.
    I expect villain to raise AA and KK in late position (it would be different if he was in EP), and you only loose to 43. But since people limp all kinds of trash in late position, I wouldn't be surprised to get shown even 43 offsuit some of the time.
  • WackabrewWackabrew Posts: 400Subscriber
    I would also add to the range of hands that we beat all Kx of spades (turned second pair with nut flush draw)

    It is so rare that I lay down a set (especially middle set) in 2/5 and below that I don't think I could find a fold here. The gross overbet, especially from a "loud arrogant guy" screams "I'm the table captain, you will fold to my awesome pressure". You are ~57% against a range of all two pair, set, and straight hands and you are still more than 50% against AK, 43, and 22. If he's got even a chance of doing this with Ax that isn't two pair or Kx of spades, you are way ahead.

    Call, and if he flips 43, fill up on the river.
  • whatsyourplay? Posts: 752Member
    Wackabrew said
    Call, and if he flips 43, fill up on the river.
    I always have trouble to put the second part of your advice into practice, but maybe that's just me.... Wink
  • napncrash Posts: 177Subscriber
    Ok, AA and KK are VERY doubtfully in his range... he was a loud, obnoxious ass hole (trying to get under people's skins, but most players were either ignoring him or knew what he was up to) ... but he wasn't an awful player, we can essentially negate him flatting in position against a limped field with AA, KK, or AK. Maybe a slight percentage of the time, but rare enough to ignore.

    Other things that go through my mind while I'm in the tank:

    1) Could be 22.
    2) Nut draw just hit two pair? Would he super jam like that without thinking? I bet, guy folds, and he, at light speed, "ALL IN!" Does the instant nature of his bet give away his hand?
    3) Hyper overjams are USUALLY very nutty hands and are done with aggressiveness to try to bait the other player into "f you" calling. It never works, but people do it.
    4) Would he be hyperjamming with anything but the nuts? I doubt it's a bluff.
    5) I would vomit if he turned over like QJss or worse. He's been talking a goosey game, but hasn't really been playing one.

    Agree? Disagree? Let's stay in the tank a while longer.
  • WackabrewWackabrew Posts: 400Subscriber
    whatsyourplay? said
    Wackabrew said
    Call, and if he flips 43, fill up on the river.
    I always have trouble to put the second part of your advice into practice, but maybe that's just me.... Wink
    Ha yeah me too! Doesn't mean that other people aren't lucky though Laugh
  • WackabrewWackabrew Posts: 400Subscriber
    napncrash said
    4) Would he be hyperjamming with anything but the nuts? I doubt it's a bluff.
    .
    The problem with the statement above is that there are so many hands that Villian could have that aren't bluffs (in his mind) that are worse than yours.

    Have you played with this guy before? Have you ever seen him do this (with or without the nuts)? "Not an awful player" isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.

    Even against a "range" of exactly the nuts, we still have ~25% equity. It's currently $420 for us to call to win $620, so ~1.3/1. We need to be good 43% of the time. Is he doing this with worse than middle set 1 out of 5 times? If the answer is yes, then call. Like I said above, I'm finding fold so rarely in this spot that it would be a quick call for me.
  • Mike Posts: 371Member
    seems like a snap call. You are behind 1 hand that he could have and absolutly smash everything else in his range. Just snap his dick off, pre tip the dealer.

    Sorry you ran into the nuts.
  • UntreatableFPS Posts: 1,004Subscriber
    It's almost always 43 when he's being loud and obnoxious and shoves as a pretty big overbet, and I'm almost never folding 100BB deep. I understand a fold, but I admit that I'm not capable of making it in this particular situation. I would make a crying call.

    I actually do have more trouble folding flopped sets than I should, but these cooler spots come up infrequently enough that you're not losing too much if you call. If he ever has aces up or a set of deuces, you have him absolutely crushed. And when he has a straight, you still have around 25% equity, which is a decent amount compared to what he has when you're ahead.

    I'm not too big in the business of hero folding, as you can see, when not super deep.

    Such is life...
  • napncrash Posts: 177Subscriber
    I snap called. Probably best to never snap ANYTHING, but I did.

    He had, of course, the 43 off for the flopped nuts.

    But, even though I'm not sure I could fold to a guy I don't have a lot of experience with, there are some real issues here:

    1) This SCREAMS nuts. It doesn't scream bluff or even semi-bluff. It doesn't scream two pair... when an experienced guy hyper-ships, it's usually to induce a snap of some kind and he got one. Granted, he was lucky I had such a huge hand in that spot, but is he REALLY going bezerker with A5 or something? I doubt it.

    It seems as if everyone agrees - if there's ANY chance he's doing this with just 22, then you gotta get it in. And if there's ANY chance he's ALSO doing it with a weird two pair or (plus) draw, then you gotta get it in. A weird limped AK? Maybe... but all so doubtful, but not so doubtful that I have to fold. And yeah, I had outs...

    Ever notice it's not the meek, mild, polite old guy who gets this hand against your set? It's always "that guy." But that's besides the point.
  • Mike Posts: 371Member
    Yes his line screams strength but you really dont know what he veiws as strong.

    Its just a cooler nothing you can do.
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