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Sticky PLO8 hand.. big draw on turn,, to bet or not to bet?

ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
edited November -1 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
I played a mixed plo plo8 game with 1/2 blinds and a 5 bring in. I raise in pos to 25 with AQ23 double suited (ace high and queen high) with hearts and spades. we are in the PLO8 round..four callers.. I have 300 behind .Flop comes

3 K T rainbow

I have a pair and a gutshot backdoor hearts and spades.. I bet 100 one caller.. has called me light before turn

5 spades.. I now have wheel draw too, nut low, pair and now nut flush draw too.. I decide to check since I have such a big draw I dont want to get bet off it (or should I be thinking this way)...

River .. brick.. I miss everything.. now bb bets 150.. I fold..

Should I have bet the turn or with my hand checking is best with half the deck to hit?

Comments

  • Wendy,

    What is the brick on the river? Just out of curiosity is this game in Ventura?

    As played I'd probably just not cbet the flop. Not a great board for your hand. If you want to cbet bluff I'd choose to bet less. When it gets to the turn I would probably continue with another barrel, however. Seems like the BB would raise with almost all big hands immediately on the flop and you have picked up good equity. Dbl gutshot plus the nut low draw with the chance that you could catch trips 3s. Seems like this guy must have some sort of wrappy broadway hand.

    Bart
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    Bart said

    Wendy,

    What is the brick on the river? Just out of curiosity is this game in Ventura?

    As played I'd probably just not cbet the flop. Not a great board for your hand. If you want to cbet bluff I'd choose to bet less. When it gets to the turn I would probably continue with another barrel, however. Seems like the BB would raise with almost all big hands immediately on the flop and you have picked up good equity. Dbl gutshot plus the nut low draw with the chance that you could catch trips 3s. Seems like this guy must have some sort of wrappy broadway hand.

    Bart
    I am at Winstar in Oklahoma. I was thinking that because we are on PLO8 that he probably doesnt have those high broadway cards ..more likely ppl have smaller wheel cards. I dont remember the river card exactly but it missed the low so it couldnt be any card 8 or less. I think it paired the board.. Its also a 1/2 game with a 5 bring in.

    I was trying to relate this to a hand like in Holdem when I have say AA on a xxxx where there are three cards to my suit on the turn. ie pair and the nut draw. take the card..

    h
  • WillWay Posts: 35Member
    Hey Wendy-
    I recently played some PLO/8 1/2 in a home game mix, and love it. I have experienced this myself in this situation a cpl of times, however. I don't know what to do in this spot either. Similarly, a situation came up where I had a nut low wrap, and 2nd nut flush draw where I lost a chunk of my stack, as the river tanked with a J. I had 2 pr. on the flop, and made the nut low draw on the turn.....with a stack that was basically 1:1 on the turn relative to the pot, I just called his half pot bet, which is the most glaring problem with my play there. I feel it was a fold/shove, but I didn't do either. Guess it is down to equities, and making weighted judgements about their holdings being similar or different...have an aspirin?Smile

    Will
  • shmed Posts: 321Subscriber
    I would have bet pot/near-pot here since you can get nearly your whole stack in. It maximizes your FE now and a fold gives you the whole the pot uncontested. If you get called, you are fine with so many outs to sweep or get half. With check on the flop and turn, seems like your opponent either has one pair or a b'way straight draw, both of which he may fold on the turn with the low draw developing and increasing the risk that he'd be calling a pot-sized bet to perhaps win half the pot at SD.
  • With 4 callers c betting flop is not going to take it down so when you hit monster card on turn you have to apply pressure, your draws are in good shape against his made hands. You put 100 in on flop with 200 left, no worries about getting bet off your draw
  • chilidog Posts: 2,427Subscriber
    not sure why you're betting the flop -- seems really ambitious to get it through 4 other players. i'm happy to take a free card here with only a gutter and backdoor draws, especially when 5 people saw the flop. are you getting it in if someone crai otf? if not, you give up some decent backdoor equity.

    if you check behind otf, you could actually raise a turn lead on the 5s. anyway, as played potting turn seems fine to maximize FE.
  • grindbler Posts: 131Member
    I don't like the flop c-bet either.
    you can c/fold, or maybe pick up a lot of equity on the turn for free if it gets checked around.
    getting attached to a fabulous starting hand that kinda sorta hit the flop can get expensive.
    it's still like any hand; you want to hit the flop with it. the reason it is such a great starting hand is that there are so many ways to hit nutty draws, value-hands, that have your opponent dominated. if the flop doesnt co-operate, you have to let it go sometimes...
    I'm not concerned with keeping up the initiative post-flop unless its HU, and opponent is str8forward.

    as played (and if I have a tight image) i'm barreling the turn, and planning on considering a triple barrel if i miss. (and he may have missed too?)
    if he didnt raise the flop, then his hand isnt strong enough to go all the way prolly. (ie. doesnt have a set).
    I agree w. bart that his range may be weighted twrds a broadway wrap/ top 2 type hand which is doing pretty well against your hand

    If you had to fly into Dallas, my condolences to you. (i'm from there, and it's the pits)
  • whatsyourplay? Posts: 752Member
    just saw this thread, and it has been said before, but just started to learn PLO8, so I am really interested in PLO8 discussion.

    wrt the hand, I think this is one of the best examples you can find where you really want to check back the flop, since
    - your hand is def. not strong on the flop
    - especially against multiple opponents
    - but there are a million good turn cards for you
    - so you want to keep players with weaker/one-way draws in, b/c you can freeroll them on the turn
    - and last but not least, stack sizes are to shallow to bet/call the flop
  • StopHammertimeStopHammertime Posts: 81Member
    I have nothing valuable to add, just wanted to say I'm glad to see PLO and PLO8 discussion, as I'm trying to learn those games.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    I wish there were more games. I have played PLO8 (4 card ) at Foxwoods and Winstar (ok just 1 hr north of dallas). There used to be a game at Tulalip (seattle).

    All were 1/2 with a 5 bring in. I love O8 its my favorite game. But like most omaha games there is a higher variance. I would say that the folks at foxwoods knew a lot less about the game and were much more the gambler types then at winstar. winstar the avg age was probably over 50 and there super super nitty.. bad game ..

    I have learned a lot form this forum and I realized after I posted what a mistake I made.. Hopefully I will get another chance to play one of these days..

    Wendy
  • Wendy,

    Actually, pot limit split pot games should have the LEAST amount of variance. In fact that is why PLO8 is rarely sustainable as a casino game. The bad players have absolutely no shot at winning. It is rare for them to even win inside of one session. So often they are putting their stacks in getting freerolled and they have no idea that the game really isn't about making the best low hand when it is pot limit. It is all about making the nut low AND a valuebetting high hand. I look at the variance as the exact opposite of PLO where a bad player can go on a huge winning streak over the course of many months.

    Bart
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    Bart

    I completely agree that most players have no clue in PLO8. That said you still can lose when some bozo gets it all in with say A789 two spades and you have A2k5 and the get it all in on a board and say get couterfeited when a 2 hits the river or something like that. That happened to me alot at winstar .. At foxwoods those players just seemed to be playing hold em.. not realizing that you are trying to scoop. One kid there kept playing middling cards. I kept pushing with a low made and freerolling for a high (as you said)..

    I also feel that with the game being Pot limit it does seem to play alot bigger than the same blind level for NL..

    With all the work I have done over the past year or so, I would love another crack (no pun intended) at PLO8..

    Wendy
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