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Deep stacks - river play

Fish Fryer Posts: 161Member
edited November -1 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
5/10 game with effective stacks of $3200.

I typically play the 2/5 game with a 100bb cap but finally, after a month of waiting, the appropriate lineup found itself to the 5/10 game and I was happy to take a shot. My image was standard TAG, maybe even nitty TAG. I hadn't shown down a losing hand in about 4 hours. I've won several hands without making it to showdown, etc... I've played with a few of the guys at the table at the 2/5 game before and one of them commented to me (somewhat privately) that he was hoping it would be someone else from the must move game since I wasn't going to donk away a few grand...

Villain has been at the table about 10 minutes. No reads at all and one this is one of, if not the, first hands he has played. I didn't play with him in the must move game. He has a decent stack so I assumed he doubled up at some point in the feeder game.

Being 320bb deep in the hand isn't something that happens so much at 2/5, so the river was a conundrum of what the proper play was. Happy to hear comments on all streets.

UTG+2 raises to 40, MP calls, I call with 9cTc in the c/o and V calls out of the BB.

Flop (160). Jc 6c 2c. Checked to me and I bet 100. 2 callers, the original pf raiser folds.

Turn (460), 2h . I lead for 275, which in hindsight, was probably too small. Only V calls. I think V's range here consists of Axc or Kxc type hands and 77 or 88 with a club, QcJx,? I'm not sure he would lead into me with 66, but I think he would have check raised the turn to build the pot.

River (1010) is a blank - 4s. V checks. My initial thought is to check it back without any history with the V. I don't know that I get called by worse and I am in a real jam if I bet 7-800 and he shoves. I'm curious what you would do....


  • whatsyourplay? Posts: 752Member
    I'd bet around 600-680 and fold to a reraise. He can definitely call you down with AJ, KJ type hands since you are pretty polarized by the river.
    Reraising in his spot as a bluff is a very gutsy move which you won't see too often, so the risk that you fold the best hand should be really really small.

    Also, like you said, you could bet the turn slightly larger, maybe something like 300-330.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    You are very deep and you have to take into consideration protecting your stack ... Which means bet folding is a must. bet for value and fold to big raises as the pots get big..

    If I am reading this correctly you flopped a flush and the board paired on the turn? You didnt get raised on the flop nor the turn... so I am pretty much putting villain on the A of clubs or top pairish kind of hands.. Most players with straight draws and lower pairs are going to fold to the bet on the turn with the paired board. The rightly see that even if they hit their hand they can be drawing dead..He could have slowplayed the nut flush but after the board pairing I see so many players just call a bet on the river even in this situation.

    Its a fine line Zach to bet the right amount and I would say that even today I think I probably still bet a bit smaller than I could. I really dont think your bet is too small. You bet 100 into a 120 pot on the flop.. got called by two players .. 100 x3 + 120 =420.. your bet of 275 is almost 3 times your bet on the flop.. that will seem big to your opponents and its still bigger than half pot.. maybe you could have bet 325 but I dont mind the bet really.

    The way i have gotten used to betting in these types of spots is to bet a little smaller on the river (but it will still seem big to villain) to feel a little less pot committed.. So say bet 475-550.. these absolute bet sizes are just big to see.. You will NOT get bluffed raised and what would villain have that he could raise? A high flushes and full houses..

    I do discount the boat since he didnt raise you on flop but if he is a player who will slowplay then this is possible. most players would raise the flop to protect two pair and sets so its much more likely villain has the Ac..

    Also to think about for sizing is if you think he only can have tp and A or K flush draws then betting smaller might get you called by the tps but the flush draws will fold..

  • Arenzano Posts: 1,464Subscriber
    Other than your bet sizing, I think you played the hand well given the circumstances. I do not think you should bet the river without a solid read on the villain. A 10 high flush on a paired board usuaully is, in my opinion, a tipping point, but the villain is unlikely to have a full house here. I would have preferred to see you bet $120 on the flop and around $300 - $340 on the turn.
  • WackabrewWackabrew Posts: 400Subscriber
    I think that the river is a must bet. Make it big enough that you will only be riased by better - something like $600. Check/Call, Check/Call, and then Check on the river looks to me as though he's holding on with a top pair type of hand hoping that you have Acx, or that he is pot controlling KcKx or QcQx. We have the 10c in our hand so tough for him to have 1010.

    I discount a high flush because Villian would have raised at some point (you would think) in order to juice the pot, and a most players would raise a flopped set on that board since they would be scared of big clubs, so I would think that Villian would also not have a flush.

    That said, your hand looks like a flopped flush or nothing here. It would be a sick spot is Villian is capable of raising the river with the nut flush blocker. Most people can't do that though. I think if you get raised on the river you are toast, but if you don't bet you are losing a ton of value from pairs that would call.
  • Mike Posts: 371Member
    I dont really think that you can bet here. I dont think that you will get called 50% of the time by a worse hand. You are going to fold out a majority of his range with your river bet but i doubt a TP type of hand will call. Because the villian is not the PFR you can discount and overpairs to the board so you are likely only going to get called by AcJx type hand on the river. There just arent enough combos of hands that he will call a river bet with.

    A case could be made to bet the river small to try and get a crying call from a 1p type of hand but that will make the bluffing frequency a bit higher so if you get shoved on its a super stupid spot.

    I think checking back the river is the best play. Dont play based on your hand strength. (not saying you particularily just in general)
  • Fish Fryer Posts: 161Member
    Thanks for all of the comments and thoughts. I found it interesting that this was a divided topic here as well as my mind...

    I ended up checking back the river and I was good. No idea what V had. I just didn't think I could be good here when called half the time. In hindsight, I think I should have bet the turn more as Ac X is such a large part of the range.
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