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turned top set completes draws

PokerIsFrustrating Posts: 657Member
edited November -1 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
1/2 300 max nl

Hero (325) sat down about 15 mins ago. Played like 1 hand where I raised pre and took it down with a cbet. No history with players.

Villain (180) younger kid. Super loose pre, and seems to be kind of spray. I saw him limp q5s utg, then check/called a q x x board and min check raised when he hit trips on a queen turn, then checked river. Limps stuff like a5o utg and probably calls anything remotely good vs a raise.

Hero (utg) Q s Q c raises to 12
Utg +2 calls
Villain (Mp) calls
Button calls
Bb calls

Flop: Jd Td 3s
Bb checks. Hero bets 40, villain calls, everyone else folds

Turn: Jd Td 3s Qd

Villain thought for a little and called on the flop. Didn't look like he was thinking of raising.

Stack sizes are super awkward. If I bet anything sizable I can't really fold, but if I check an I folding to a ship? If he shoves I don't have odds to call to spike a boat, so I'd have to think I'm good a decent % of the time.

if he happens to have a hand like kj, t9, etc with a diamond i think he still will call a bet. Was a little worried if I ship maybe I fold out a lot of weaker stuff and obviously better never folds.

Could I ever check and hope he makes an idiotic underbet with a flush? If so, what am I folding river?

Do i Just move him in and hope he turned a flush draw or was trapping with a set or 2.pair?


  • WackabrewWackabrew Posts: 400Subscriber
    So villian has less than a pot sized bet after the flop? This is a terrible spot. I would have to think that he has something when he calls you flop bet, as he still has two people behind hind left to act. In your description, he seems pretty bad (LOL at limping with Q5s from UTG), in terms of a range of hands that he could have that would call the flop bet I would put it at: 89s,89o, KQs, KQo (although less likely given our Q blockers), AKs, AKo, Axdd, Kxdd, J10s, J10o, 3xdd, KJs, KJo, Q10s, Q10o (although again less likely) and maybe some other random diamonds. That's a ton of hands, and we are not doing well versus most of them (plus all of the two pair hands in his range subtract from our full house outs)

    I would think that you could go one of two ways here...one is a block-ish type of bet on the turn, like $45-50, and if he jams for the rest of it, you can probably fold even though at that point you would be getting the correct odds to call off the remaining $75 and try to fill up.

    The other way (and probably what I would do), is to check and see what he does. So many players at this level don't understand proper bet sizing (or they don't want you to fold - not understanding that they may be giving you the right odds to call and stack them), that I wouldn't be surprised to see a small bet on the turn (something in the range of $35-45). If that's the case, then you can call and see what the river brings. If it's a brick then you can pretty safely check fold, and if it pairs the board you can just jam it in there and he basically has to call with any flush.
  • whofox Posts: 25Subscriber
    From the way you've described him I feel like you're way ahead of his range. Putting in the range Wackabrew suggested, for instance, you have almost 70% equity. And even if he's got a flush you have a redraw. Do what you can to get the money in so against this call happy player that seems like a shove. He plays it so tricky, checking the river when he has trips, so he will probably read your shove as anything but a made flush and call with lots worse. Don't be afraid of the loss. This is exactly the kind of player you want to milk.
  • Mike Posts: 371Member
    Wackabrew said

    I would think that you could go one of two ways here...one is a block-ish type of bet on the turn, like $45-50, and if he jams for the rest of it, you can probably fold even though at that point you would be getting the correct odds to call off the remaining $75 and try to fill up.
    You are going to bet and then fold when mathimatically it says to call?

    Just jam it in here. Im not sure what "spray" means it could be a typo or something. Bart often uses a lot of examples of peoples bet sizing where they are never going to fold the river so calling their turn bet is like them moving in but you only have to call a portion of their stack to win all of it. He has 128 left into pot of 135. Just move in and count the galfond bucks.
  • PokerIsFrustrating Posts: 657Member
    If I decide to check/ call a small bet, the pot will be so big that it would be really hard to fold if a rick rivers.

    Is there any merit to betting less than a ship? I'm hoping he makes some kind of terrible light peel. Given what I saw he probably doesnt understand correct odds. So i guess betting 60 or 70 doesn't really make any sense.
  • Mike Posts: 371Member
    The only reason to bet less than a ship would be to gay bet (sorry to those offended but thats the best descriptor) to try and induce something worse to shove. But if he peels river sucks so just ship it in.
  • whatsyourplay? Posts: 752Member
    I think this spot mainly depends on the combination of villain's tendencies and your image.
    If you are perceived as aggressive and/or villain is on the stationy side, I would shove.
    If your image is tight and/or villain plays slightly more fit or fold, I would check-fold (unless he bets very small or givesoff a tell that he's not all that strong).
  • PokerIsFrustrating Posts: 657Member
    Thanks for the comments. I actually bet 70, which is kinda weird but I thought maybe he might call and then just stack river. Probably bad bc he's calling or not

    He ended up moving in for 60 more, I called and he showed 62dd. River actually was a 4th diamond but of course I still lost to the flush.

    I felt stupid paying off on the turn, but o feel better given the feedback.

    Thanks. I appreciate all of the feedback even if the hands seem obvious. Its great to be able to post and not get flamed or called an idiot.
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