Welcome.

Take a tour. Enjoy some free sample content.

How it works

Free Video: CLP Video No. 287: Home Game Bart Reviews His Splashy At $1-$3 Deep Part 2

Free Podcast: CLP Podcast No. 54: Time Warp And Turn Value
New to Crush Live Poker?

Getting max value from a nitty pre flop raiser

workinghard Posts: 1,561Subscriber
edited March 2015 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
I'm on the button playing $350 effective in a 3/5 game. UTG villain is playing super cautious poker. very weak tight.

EDIT I have JJ.

UTG opens to $15. There's a cold caller, I call, and BB calls. Could I raise? sure. but versus this particular opponent I'd rather see a cheap flop knowing his tight range.
FLOP $60 AJx. checked to me. I bet small, $35 and UTG calls.

TURN $130 Q. Checked to me. I bet $70. really I'm hoping for a call from KK or maybe KQ. UTG calls.

RIVER $270 Checked to me and I bet $100.

thoughts on alternative bet sizing? What range of hands are we targetting from PFR?

Comments

  • kom Posts: 225Subscriber
    edited March 2015
    I don't know what you have have but a weak tight is never calling three streets with second pair, so your tiny bet on the end is self defeating. Go bigger on turn and river if you have jjj.
  • reedmylipsreedmylips Posts: 1,145Subscriber
    edited March 2015
    I know your opponent is weak-tight, but I think you need to value-target aces instead of KK. Only 6 combos of KK, some of which are gonna fold flop to even a small bet, most will call once and pitch turn anyway. Many more combos of AK and AQ.

    Value target AK and AQ instead, bet $45 or $50 on flop (villain will call that sizing with AK or AQ), then $100 or $110 on turn, then ship river.
  • Ironkidsb Posts: 219Subscriber
    I take it from the way you describe this hand that you are strong and are trying to get value??? What do you have? Are you trying to bet for value on all three streets or are you playing the bet/fold game? That info would really help in an analysis :tu:
  • workinghard Posts: 1,561Subscriber
    sorry. I have JJ for a set.
  • workinghard Posts: 1,561Subscriber
    edited March 2015
    kom said:
    I don't know what you have have but a weak tight is never calling three streets with second pair, so your tiny bet on the end is self defeating. Go bigger on turn and river if you have jjj.
    I guess I'm trying to suss out the best play vs two unlikely scenarios.
    Scenario 1: PFR opens with a big Ace and check calls flop and turn on a dry board.
    Scenario 2. PFR opens with a non-ace pair like KK and check calls three streets.

    Which of those 2 scenarios are more likely and which am I most likely to get value from? The argument that seems to be voiced is that if we are dealing with scenario 2, I'm never getting value from KK-type hands so I might as well go for max value hoping I'm dealing with a scenario 1 situation. Is that about right?

  • reedmylipsreedmylips Posts: 1,145Subscriber
    workinghard said:
    kom said:
    I don't know what you have have but a weak tight is never calling three streets with second pair, so your tiny bet on the end is self defeating. Go bigger on turn and river if you have jjj.
    I guess I'm trying to suss out the best play vs two unlikely scenarios.
    Scenario 1: PFR opens with a big Ace and check calls flop and turn on a dry board.
    Scenario 2. PFR opens with a non-ace pair like KK and check calls three streets.

    Which of those 2 scenarios are more likely and which am I most likely to get value from? The argument that seems to be voiced is that if we are dealing with scenario 2, I'm never getting value from KK-type hands so I might as well go for max value hoping I'm dealing with a scenario 1 situation. Is that about right?

    I agree with all of this. When comparing the scenarios, if you count the combos, he has WAY more combos of big aces than combos of KK. And like you said, we're getting way more value from big aces, so go forth and value bet!!!
  • dannydeuces Posts: 235Member
    You need to have your stack in by the river. Bet 95 on the turn & jam 200 on the river to hopefully get paid by Ax. Ez game.
  • CalgaryPokerGuy Posts: 342Subscriber
    edited March 2015
    workinghard said:
    RIVER $270 Checked to me and I bet $100.
    Maybe I missed it, what was the river card?
  • Th3_gman Posts: 69Subscriber
    You have to get youre stack in if you sized your turn bet larger you can setup an easy ~2/3 pot shove on river. In spots like these I like your flop lead of half pot but on turns and rivers are where I like to slam the hammer down Id go for for half pot flop almost pot turn and setup stacks for river shove especially with an Ace on board. You're not to deep so getting stacks isn't hard, if you were deeper you might consider check raising turn maybe to build the pot.
  • workinghard Posts: 1,561Subscriber
    CalgaryPokerGuy said:
    workinghard said:
    RIVER $270 Checked to me and I bet $100.
    Maybe I missed it, what was the river card?
    a blank. I think it was an off suit 8

  • Jack7777 Posts: 653Subscriber
    edited March 2015
    workinghard said:
    I'm on the button playing $350 effective in a 3/5 game. UTG villain is playing super cautious poker. very weak tight.

    EDIT I have JJ.

    UTG opens to $15. There's a cold caller, I call, and BB calls. Could I raise? sure. but versus this particular opponent I'd rather see a cheap flop knowing his tight range.
    FLOP $60 AJx. checked to me. I bet small, $35 and UTG calls.

    TURN $130 Q. Checked to me. I bet $70. really I'm hoping for a call from KK or maybe KQ. UTG calls.

    RIVER $270 Checked to me and I bet $100.

    thoughts on alternative bet sizing? What range of hands are we targetting from PFR?
    I think you are looking at AA or KK. If he's as tight as you say, I don't see him raising UTG and calling with anything less. The Q makes a str8 and he still called. Also, the Q brings QQQ into play, but I don't think that is his hand. You didn't say the river in the OP. I would have probably just checked the river, unless it was a J.

    The betting is okay. You could have bet more on the turn and shutdown.

Sign In or Register to comment.