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Free Video: CLP Video No. 287: Home Game Bart Reviews His Splashy At $1-$3 Deep Part 2

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New to Crush Live Poker?

Casino Selection, yeah or neigh!?!

I struggle with this topic.........

OK so I got to Bellagio the other night to play a 1-3 game. I get seated and instantly recognized 7 guys at the table to be "decent". Everyone was drinking water or green tea (this is a sin when there is free alcohol available!). It was a quiet game..No body was having fun. It's March Madness in Vegas and I'm sitting with a bunch of nits with back packs and iPads. I feel like I really should be in a game with bad spewy tourists on a Friday night!!

I stayed for a bit.. I was betting hands and only getting called by BETTER. EX I'd raise AK flop a K and bet 3 streets and then the grinder shows two pair etc or an AA he didn't 3-bet pre..

So the question is. Should I move casinos, table change or try to find a better table or should I be working on the 'beating the nits' aspect of my game. Bart always says low limit poker is about GETTING VALUE and NOT PAYING OFF. But that's sometimes very though in some casinos where we happen to have a small reg infestation. I have friends who will snap move casinos, annoy the floor all night changing tables or even go home. But others who text me and say I'm wasting time I could be playing by trying to find a good game and I should just stay put in the game I was sent to and just make the most of it. Who's view is correct?

Ok we all probably agree Dan Bilzerian is a tool but something he said resonated in me. "Im not a very good poker player but I put myself in very good, action games where I can win." I feel like that's my case. I'm not trying to prove I'm the best or play against players of equal or better skill. Maybe when I have a few million in the bank.

Vegas is great.. But when your in LA you can just show up to Commerce and find a good table.. In Vegas you often have to visit 2-3 casinos in a night. Which is annoying but at least they are usually close by vs an hour apart like in Cali.

Thoughts?

Caj

Comments

  • ACK Posts: 428Subscriber
    Find a better game.

    Grinding $10-$20 an hour in a nitty 1/3 game sounds soooo boring. I would find a better game so you can earn more $$ and have more fun.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    edited March 2015
    Changing games or rooms because of cards alone is not a good reason. If your image is bad thats another thing. Also if the game isnt good why stay? I would have asked for. Tbl change as soon as I saw it with 7 decent regs.

    Now danb plays in wild games cuz thats his image. If your image is tight those games cud be good too.

    I was at a tbl earlier where i was with two action players. But there were four pros and a cpl nits. I just dont think thats a good game either. So i moved to the other game w no pros and some ok regs and a few kinda bad players. Bart even discussed this last week. I think my hrly in my new game way better than my old one
  • Arenzano Posts: 1,464Subscriber
    i would be looking to change tables, catch the tram to Aria, or walk to Ceasars.
  • GhostDogGhostDog Posts: 328Subscriber
    I think definitely look for a better table/game. I can only imagine that there has to be a good game somewhere in Vegas. I think a huge skill for lasting pros is always finding the best table/game.

    With the availability of rooms and proximity should make game selection easier. There's no need to butt onions with other winning players when there are tourists giving it away somewhere.

    At the same time we should always be working on our game, but it's better to work smarter than harder. Finding a better table/game = smarter IMHO
  • CajunDragonCajunDragon Posts: 173Member
    Ya agreed Light Hamma..

    I'm not one of these d-bags who will change seats because it is cold or ask for a setup because I'm getting Q6 every other hand. If the game is good, I'm staying. Talking specifically about the competency of the field.

    Arenzano I did indeed walk to Caesars against my buds advice. I got in a game, picked up KK and some guy called my 3-bet with TQo and got it in for his whole $300 against me on a KT2 flop. Lucky me. But its not luck, I moved my ASS to a game where there were more idiots.. Meanwhile my bud was stuck $200 in the game filled with the regulars at Bellagio. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm :)

  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    edited March 2015
    btw

    not to brag..but what the hell..lol..

    in that "better" game I moved to I got into a spot with two other players in a limped pot when I had a gutter to the nut straight with 74 on a

    235 rainbow board..

    I was in sb and in the 5/5 game at hustler I dont even have to complete.. so we were like 5 ways to flop.. I checked planning on going for a check raise.. bb checked but the one player that isnt folding to my cr bet 20..So I just called.. then the bb reraised to 65..

    bb had about 1100..I had 1300 and another shorter player overcalls the 65 and the flop better folded..

    So I called the 3 bet because he priced me in and the flop texture is unique.. IF the 6 comes it puts a 4 card straight with the 4 .. BUT I have the 7.. giving me a better straight. in these games with these opponents almost no one is folding the straight.. Even when they are committing their whole stack to just chop..they still call off.

    Turn 6 s putting the spade flush as backdoor.

    I lead out $125.. bb tanks mumbles and then min raises me.. other villain shakes his head is worried but eventually shoves his 600 .. I reshove and bb says "you have 74" ah yes I do thankyou..

    So we are all three all in.. second villain turns over A4ss so he had outs ..but thankfully an os K fell and I scooped a huge pot..

    this scenario just wouldnt happen at the other table.. for a number of reasons.. firstly I am probably not getting to the flop as most pots were raised.. Secondly the villain who flopped the straight would raise more.. making me make a mistake.. and finally they are folding to my overship not calling off another 800 to chop..

    thats why my second game was WAY better.. players are lazy and thats the basic thing.. I am not lazy I want the best game and am alot better ..and I mean ALOT better than most of the pros in my home casino at picking the best games..not necessarily the most action..

    ww
  • CajunDragonCajunDragon Posts: 173Member
    edited April 2015
    Nice!

    Ahh hustler.. Last time I went there I had a very profitable session. I lowered my set mine requirements from 15x down to 10 because the table was just paying off.. no matter what. Huge implied odds. I'd definitely play there if I ever move to CA. More of a Vegas style atmosphere and encourages drinking and lose action IMO.

    I feel like some of the reg grinder 'kids' here just want to be recognized as "good". Maybe their parents ignored them. You ask them what game they play and they say "I'm an Aria 2-5 Grinder". I mean f that, your a poker player and you should be willing to play at Hard Rock, Binions or Sammys basement if the games are spewy. I admire Bart for jumping down a level when the higher games are reg infested. It's not about what others will think of you... "Oh he must be busto, he's playing 2-5 instead of 5-10" lol

    Caj
  • RecreationalRogerRecreationalRoger Posts: 789Subscriber
    I like to move it move it move it
  • RecreationalRogerRecreationalRoger Posts: 789Subscriber
    Seriously its Vegas there HAS to be a better game somewhere. Whats better - playing 5 hours in game where your EV is 10$/hour or taking the time to find a game at $20/hour EV but only play say 4 hours due to table and casino transfers?
  • DavidChan Posts: 1,208Pro
    RecreationalRoger,

    This is really a cost versus benefit analysis. Depending on your win-rate, there could be very high opportunity costs to casino-hopping. The higher that your win-rate is, the higher the costs of taking 30 minutes to 1 hour to cash out and get into a new game at the other casino. It also depends on how many hours that you intend to play at the new location. If you aren't going to be putting in many more hours at the new location, then the upside of getting into a better game will be relatively small (and therefore probably not worth casino-hopping).

    FWIW, regs who have low win-rates stand to gain the most from casino-hopping away from mediocre games because they don't give up very much in terms of opportunity cost.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    I posted a hand where I got very lucky to stack two players with a set.. one villain was this florida player here for work with his wife.. he is an unreal action player.. in the sense he will bluff almost 100% on every street if you check to him.. his bets are value size but he bets every time. but then plays these hands so bizarre and stacks off with AA that he didnt raise pre.. he doesnt really hand read at all and just tries to apply pressure .. he also played like 90% of hands as well.

    Well he showed up last night with his wife and once he made it to the main game.. all of a sudden all the reg pros moved to his table. When I left there were 6 pros at that game him his wife and another player I hadnt seen before.

    meanwhile I was sitting at my game with no pros and all rec players.. what table do you think had the better win rate potential?

    ww

  • GhostDogGhostDog Posts: 328Subscriber
    @DavidChan is it that big an opportunity cost if you're in Vegas as the OP is and there are poker rooms so close?
  • RecreationalRogerRecreationalRoger Posts: 789Subscriber
    Ghost dog that is exactly what I was thinking. Switching casinos in Vegas is entirely different than say me leaving parx. My only option is to table change
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    RecreationalRoger said:
    Ghost dog that is exactly what I was thinking. Switching casinos in Vegas is entirely different than say me leaving parx. My only option is to table change
    no thats not true. There is sugar house and Harrahs you can go to...just not as convenient
  • GhostDogGhostDog Posts: 328Subscriber
    RecreationalRoger, it could be completely naive of me but I'd imagine that it'd be way easier to casino hop in Vegas. Especially if you know the player pool and can see the games as soon as you walk in a casino.
  • RecreationalRogerRecreationalRoger Posts: 789Subscriber
    Thehammah said:
    RecreationalRoger said:
    Ghost dog that is exactly what I was thinking. Switching casinos in Vegas is entirely different than say me leaving parx. My only option is to table change
    no thats not true. There is sugar house and Harrahs you can go to...just not as convenient
    Wendy, that's the point I was trying to make, maybe not doing such a great job of it. In Vegas, there are SO many options within a 15 minute walk of wherever you are playing, that I would never stay at a bad game in the Bellagio for any longer than it would take me to realize its a bad game - I would either table change or casino change. The opportunity cost of a 15 minute walk is minimal.

    However, the opportunity cost of driving to another casino like I have to from Parx, does add up. Parx to Sugar House is 20 minutes, to Harrahs is 30 minutes, and to AC is 60 minutes - and they're all headed away from my house so double that time. And also my evening sessions after work only run 3-4 hours tops so I have no spare time to drive; i'd be cutting into my playing time by 20-30% easily. Totally different than taking a 15 minute walk in Vegas.

    So all I'm saying is that I agree with David's post above that the OC of moving from casino to casino may not be cheap depending on where you live, but its minimal in Vegas, so in regards to the OP about Bellagio, I would hightail it out of there or any other Vegas casino within 5 minutes of deciding there weren't any good games. I did this for one week solid on vacation a few years ago and only played in 1 bad game in 7 days, and that was for one hour at 11 pm at night in the Mirage where I was staying and I was just too tired to go anywhere else (my body was still on east coast time so it felt like 2 AM to me) so I just went to bed.

  • CajunDragonCajunDragon Posts: 173Member
    edited April 2015
    Yes, I can shoot over to a new room within 15 minutes.. The profitable grinders I run in to here seem to do it. I wouldn't do this in LA .. And generally I can find a soft $5 blind game in Commerce, Bike, HG or Hustler.. So I'm staying put. I always look for a new table in the current room first. Worked like a charm at Bellagio the other night. Just moved to the loudest table with the most alcohol.

    I don't know how ethical it is but I've been going around looking at the BRAVO LCD display on the tables. If more then 3 seats say "GUEST" by them then it's a 90% chance those guys are fish.. No self respecting grinder would ever be in a game without clocking in to BRAVO using their players card. They want the comps.. This method has been very solid. I don't think you can do this in California... #VegasEdge!
  • GhostDogGhostDog Posts: 328Subscriber
    CajunDragon said:

    I don't know how ethical it is but I've been going around looking at the BRAVO LCD display on the tables. If more then 3 seats say "GUEST" by them then it's a 90% chance those guys are fish.. No self respecting grinder would ever be in a game without clocking in to BRAVO using their players card. They want the comps.. This method has been very solid. I don't think you can do this in California... #VegasEdge!
    I love this idea, consider it stolen! Thanks!!!
  • CajunDragonCajunDragon Posts: 173Member
    I need to keep my mouth shut. hehehe. Naw don't mind.. Any little edge helps
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