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2/5 - Out of my comfort zone with AA against LAG Villain 200bbs deep, 3bet pot

Hi guys! For my first post here at CLP I wanted to get some feedback on a hand I played a couple of weeks ago. This was at a local 2/5 underground game - 1 table, 10 handed, small player pool so everyone knows everyone reasonably well.

Hero ($1400) - white guy, early 30's, one of the tightest players at the table, big winning image tonight.

Villain ($1000) - white guy, mid 40's. Not a “pro” in the sense that he has a job other than poker, but plays for profit and is a winning player at these local underground games. Very LAG style, makes a lot of questionable calls preflop and has a strong tendency to stack off light. Had some big tourney cashes recently and (perhaps as a result of that) has been playing pretty spewy in the cash games lately. The previous week at this game was a particularly bad night for villain – he lost about $5,000 (playing 2/5), and on his last hand he called down two huge bets against an obvious full house and then proceeded to literally throw about $600 in chips across the table at the guy who won the pot.

In other words: villain is a skilled but inconsistent player who appears to be having problems playing his A-game at the moment.

Background hand from earlier in the session:
Hero is in the CO with A 9, 2 or 3 players limp in from EP, Hero limps, BTN limps, and Villain checks his option in the BB. Flop comes 6 4 3 , checks to Hero who bets $20, BTN raises to $60, Villain flats, Hero raises to $160, BTN calls the $160, Villain moves all in for $600, Hero calls and the BTN calls. Villain has 5 3 for a pair and OESFD, BTN has K 7 .

(I know this hand history makes villain look like a complete fish, and I could post probably a half dozen other examples of extremely fishy plays I’ve seen this guy make recently, but I swear this villain does actually have a decent grasp of how to play poker.)

On to the hand in question:
UTG and UTG+1 limp, Villain raises to $30 from UTG+2 (standard raise size for this villain), folds to Hero on the BTN who 3bets to $85 with A A , folds back around to Villain who makes the call.

Flop ($180): J 8 7
Villain checks, Hero bets $120, Villain check-raises to $285. Hero takes a few seconds and makes the call.

Turn ($750): 2
Villain leads out for $325, leaving himself another $300 behind. Hero ???

Comments

  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,085Subscriber
    edited March 2015
    Well if recent history is this guy is spewy im just shipping turn.

    If he was playing his A game i might fold. But you also said he was looser.

    He only needs a few QJ pair and straight draws or overplayed overpairs for the ship to ne profitable

    I would NOT just call. If hes drawing you wont get his last 300 if he checks river. And if you call you pretty much have to call river against this type of player. So dont give him a freeroll against you
  • Johnny_UtahJohnny_Utah Posts: 402Subscriber
    Agree with Hammah. Against this player we can't fold and we shouldn't be just calling I don't think.....With Villain playing such a wide range we are ahead of so much. We can get value from him ott....

    If we just call you are setting yourself up for a possible mistake on the river. Or if you just call here you pretty much have to call (like Hammah said)....

    If we get it in ott and Villain has a set or 2pair, then oh well. Sounds like the Villain has thrown any hand reading out the window recently.....

  • mythomaniac Posts: 284Subscriber
    Ship city! I agree with Hammah that he could be leading with a lot of pair+SD here. If he check-raised you on the turn, I'd be a bit more concerned but he is likely playing his hand vs the board instead of reasoning through what you would 3b pre with and bet flop with. If he is thinking that...he could be value betting against what he thinks is your AK and doesn't want the turn to get checked back.

    If I'm playing with this guy and he opens to 30 over two limps, I might 3b a little more...maybe 110-115 and not expecting him to fold. Guys like these who are LAGy love the big pot potential and who are we to not oblige them when we have their range crushed.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,085Subscriber
    I want to ask another question. Had he already beem spewy in this session?

    If he has then absolutley im shipping turn. If he had been playing his better game then its a much tougher decision

  • flyingtriangleflyingtriangle Posts: 101Subscriber
    The hand where Villain got it in on the 6 4 3 flop with 3 5 was from the same session, maybe 45 minutes to an hour before the hand in question. I think that hand was the only time so far we've seen Villain go into spew mode this session.
  • DavidTuchman Posts: 786Pro
    Against this particular opponent, you just can't fold.

    I'm shoving the turn all day, everyday against this guy.

    We make 90% of our money when our opponents are tilting. Take advantage of this...don't overthink it. If he has you beat, so be it.

    ~ Tuck
  • GoldenEagle Posts: 59SubscriberProfessional
    Your 3b sizing preflop should be larger.
  • MrFizzbinMrFizzbin Posts: 356Subscriber
    I put his range as AA, KK QQ JJ TT 99 88 77and AJ. Against that range you are a 62% favorite on the flop. He limped a loose connected hand in the first example. If you have seen him raise Ep with a JT or QJ then he could raise we 9T or 78. But if he only raises solid hands out of EP then KK QQ JJ possibly AJ TT. If you shove you'll get called by AA,KK QQ JJ and possibly AJ. If he has 9T then go bless him. So shove and get it in.
  • GhostDogGhostDog Posts: 328Subscriber
    I too think that your 3bet sizing should be larger especially because
    flyingtriangle said:
    Villain ($1000) - white guy, mid 40's. Very LAG style, makes a lot of questionable calls preflop and has a strong tendency to stack off light.
    so I think we want to help him make an even bigger mistake by calling a larger 3bet. If he's making questionable calls preflop we win even more theoretical money if he calls more money off.

    I agree with the others that we want to get stacks in here. I'm likely shoving the turn as well.
  • flyingtriangleflyingtriangle Posts: 101Subscriber
    I definitely agree that the 3bet should have been bigger preflop. This was a situation where I used a 'standard' line and raised to a little under pot without giving it much thought, but I should have been playing exploitively and sized my raise to target this particular villain's stationy tendencies. Definitely a leak I’m going to try to work on.

    I felt like the flop was a pretty tough spot because the villain is savvy enough to know that it's hard for me to have much on this board after I 3bet preflop (I'm pretty much at the top of my range with AA), and so he may see this as a good spot to check raise to get me off of my entire range. Because my range may appear capped here, does anyone think we should consider checking back on this flop against this villain?

    As played, should we start to see red flags going up on the turn? For one thing, Hero’s hand looks pretty strong after calling the check raise on the flop, so if Villain was bluffing he might start to slow down here. And what about Villain’s sizing? If he was trying to get us to fold wouldn’t he just shove all in? It doesn’t really seem like he wants a fold betting $325 into $750, especially when he only has another $300 behind.

    In any case we obviously can't fold on any river cards if we call the turn, so I was basically treating villain's turn bet as an all in for $625. I'm just still not sure whether we have enough equity against villain's range to get it in here...

    Anyway, thanks to everyone for responding. Will update with results later today.
  • flyingtriangleflyingtriangle Posts: 101Subscriber
    Result:

    Spoiler:
    Hero shoves over Villain's turn bet and is drawing dead against Villain's T 9
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,085Subscriber
    well played...
  • Dab44 Posts: 408Subscriber
    3 bet bigger for sure...like 105. He's tilting so he is probably going to call. A bigger sizing makes your decision easier on later streets. Not the best flop, its unlikely he has two pair,a set, strait.. He probably has a ten for OESD or a pair and strait draw.. Just ship the flop.. You are shallow enough to stack off, especially against this villain.
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