Welcome.

Take a tour. Enjoy some free sample content.

How it works

Free Video: CLP Video No. 287: Home Game Bart Reviews His Splashy At $1-$3 Deep Part 2

Free Podcast: CLP Podcast No. 54: Time Warp And Turn Value
New to Crush Live Poker?

hand from MDL! Kings OTB vs. Aces preflop

I have one strat hand from my very short $2-$2 PLO Maryland Live! session on Wednesday night.

$2-$2 PLO, 9-handed, effective stack was mine at around $600. UTG straddle to $5, folded to HJ who raises to $15 (young Asian, semi-aggro, friend of aggro Asian from my previous post "Maryland Live! trip report"), aA in CO flats, I make it $69 OTB with K K 8 7, folds to the UTG straddle who raises to $216 (I think he tried to make it "pot" and he and the dealer miscalculated), HJ flats with like $150 left behind. UTG has me covered.

I believe the button straddle has AAxx 99.999% of the time. He had been playing semi-tightly and only selectively aggressively. If I believe the UTG straddler as AAxx 99.999% of the time, what is the correct play OTB with KK87ds?

Thank you,

Chris

Comments

  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,085Subscriber
    I am folding.. If villain had more i might consider calling . but I think this is too much .. I made a big call last weekend for like 30% of villains stack but I had KKQJ ds.. I am not 100% of the equities but I think with him having AA I prefer to have straight rundowns and flush cards.. since I dont have an ace I am not sure if that makes a big diff.. Andrew and bart could probably say..

    But your 78 isnt connected to the kings which hurts your hand..now you cant make straights in as many ways.. I would almost rather have a hand like 9978 or 6789 etc... straight and flushes..
  • High__Rolla Posts: 765Subscriber
    If we assumed the straddler's and HJ's ranges are AA!AAA and 5%-20% in propokertools.com, you don't have the equity to just GII preflop. So, you would have to call on implied odds. I copied a graph below that shows your equity on the flop versus this range. Half of the time, you will flop <25% equity. However, if both opponents just shipped in the dark before the flop, you would only need about 25% equity to call it off

    I played with the numbers a little bit, but the math gets complicated quickly. I think you are at best looking at around neutral EV to call pre and GII on flops where you have adequate equity. If stacks were deeper then its a definite call preflop.


    Omaha Hi Hand vs. Range Equity Graph?
    224 flops dealt
    Minimum Equity for Kh8hKd7d (vs. [AA!AAA], [5%-20%])
  • Jordan Posts: 78Subscriber
    Maybe this is just a flat instead of a raise? 69 isn't a ton for the HJ to call with position, plus kinda turns our hand face up. Also, double suited KK with 87 isn't gonna flop huge often enough. Also factor in that we are out of position to a semi-aggro guy. If we flat, we can play the hand for cheaper, and when we do flop top set, it's hidden.
  • reedmylipsreedmylips Posts: 1,145Subscriber
    Jordan said:
    Maybe this is just a flat instead of a raise? 69 isn't a ton for the HJ to call with position, plus kinda turns our hand face up. Also, double suited KK with 87 isn't gonna flop huge often enough. Also factor in that we are out of position to a semi-aggro guy. If we flat, we can play the hand for cheaper, and when we do flop top set, it's hidden.
    I would very often flat here in many situations. However, the HJ was kinda short (~$350-ish after his open) and was fairly aggressive, including preflop, so I was raising hoping it would fold around to him and he would 4-bet and we could get it in. He and the CO seemed like they weren't there to fold hands, and lighting $300 on fire didn't seem to be a huge issue for either of them either. And if HJ just flatted, there would have been $160-ish in the pot with ~$300 behind, roughly 2:1 SPR. I would have just played some poker at that point.

    Then, to my disappointment, the straddler woke up and cold 4-bet, which kind of ruined my plans.
  • Jordan Posts: 78Subscriber
    Has he ever 4bet and you got to see his hand? Would he stackoff with a rundown? Are you sure you feel like getting it in PF is the best course of action?
    I'd be worried we're just flipping against a stack off range of AAxx, KKxx, and rundowns, maybe rundowns with a suited ace like like A1098.
  • reedmylipsreedmylips Posts: 1,145Subscriber
    Yeah @Jordan, you're probably right here, without a ton of history, maybe a call pre-flop is better.

    Also, read the OP carefully, I was on the button, so I was in position against HJ and everyone else. Knowing that I was OTB, does that change your opinion about 3-betting pre to isolate the HJ?

    As for this exact hand, I decided to flat the straddler raise. Pot was ~$660 to the flop. Flop came J 8 5 giving me an overpair, middle pair, and backdoor flush and straight draws. Straddle potted, HJ called off for like $150, I folded. Straddle had AAxx, HJ had a piece of cheese like QT97 single suited to the T (I remember for sure it was QTxx and not smooth), which hits this board pretty hard obv. HJ made a straight and scooped.
  • Jordan Posts: 78Subscriber
    Oh, I thought you were bb. I think I was mixing up another post. Still like flatting.
  • AJoff Posts: 546Subscriber
    edited April 2015
    I don't understand how people are hating on your raise pre. If the straddle didn't wake up with Aces, you would have gotten QT97 heads up with an SPR just over 2. It is certainly a viable strategy to only 3 bet Aces and Wendy's KKQJ ds, but you are definitely giving up some EV. Even ds KK87 seems like a "push" type hand, you should go with your read that the HJ is opening light. I also disagree that raising turns your hand face up. On a king high flop you are 100% getting it in vs an underset, and you are occasionally going to get people to fold their equity on an A high flop.

    I can go either way with folding or calling the 4bet. You are at 31% against AAxx and a top 25% hand, but occasionally you are be drawing dead to a second nut flush post.

  • AesahAesah Posts: 1,048Pro
    edited April 2015
    3-bet is fine barring specific reads. I believe it's a fold to the 4-bet- you will not flop well enough often to continue and even when you do your equity may struggle.
Sign In or Register to comment.