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Bluffin into the nuts again...

wildncrazyguywildncrazyguy Posts: 422Subscriber
edited November -1 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
OK. So is this too spewy? I bet the turn and river here thinking if villian doesn't have an ace he wont be able to call the turn and river and I'll take it down. Of course he's calling with an ace but most of the time he wont have one here. I also didn't think he would chk call all the way with the draws out there.

Merge, $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $37.85 (37.9 bb)
BB: $67.82 (67.8 bb)
UTG+2: $128.29 (128.3 bb)
MP1: $18.52 (18.5 bb)
MP2: $51.93 (51.9 bb)
MP3: $32.79 (32.8 bb)
Hero (CO): $99 (99 bb)
BTN: $27.30 (27.3 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Kh 4h
UTG+2 raises to $2, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $2, MP3 calls $2, Hero calls $2, 2 folds, BB calls $1

Flop: ($10.50) Ah 2h Ad (5 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 bets $9, 2 folds, Hero calls $9, BB folds

Turn: ($28.50) Jc (2 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero bets $14.25, UTG+2 calls $14.25

River: ($57) 9s (2 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero bets $28.50, UTG+2 calls $28.50

Results: $114 pot ($3 rake)
Final Board: Ah 2h Ad Jc 9s
UTG+2 showed 5c Ac and won $111 ($57.25 net)
Hero showed Kh 4h and lost (-$53.75 net)

Comments

  • bobo1384 Posts: 145Subscriber
    fold pre,

    playing hands like this wont end well when playing 100NL onine.

    5 handed seeing the flop, someone usually has the ace and they arent folding
  • whatsyourplay? Posts: 752Member
    I doubt it's possible to play such a bad hand in a full ring online game profitably. Fold pre!
    The only way this hand is possibly +EV is if the blinds are very tight and fold a ton preflop. But then, you basically try to win the hand pre. If you don't, just give up and check it down.
  • Mike Posts: 371Member
    Fold pre. Move down.
  • UntreatableFPS Posts: 1,004Subscriber
    If you want to play this hand, then 3-bet squeeze as a bluff

    As played, I would stop on the river
  • wildncrazyguywildncrazyguy Posts: 422Subscriber
    Mike said

    Fold pre. Move down.
    I love these joker fish who slam on people saying move down when this guy is probably a losing 1-2 player. When you get to be a better LAG you can profitably play hands like Kx suited from late position. I know your Harrington book says dont play this hand but my online stats show I'm a winner w cirtually all of my opening range from late position which is pretty wide. I'm not a nit who raises 12% like you.

    I do respect your thought whats as you do seem like you know what your talking about in your posts. Again though I dont think this is terrible when most of the time I can out play my opponents with position.

    Seems like everyone is questioning the preflop hand selection. MY HAND IS IRRELEVANT HERE PEOPLE. I'M TURNING MY DRAWING HAND INTO A BLUFF. I'm asking peoples opinion on running the bluff here, not reponses from the nits who never play a weak suited K in position.
  • Mike Posts: 371Member
    Lol I play 32/28/12. Hardly nitty. But you are right. Everyone on the forum has said fold pre but we all suck and you know better.

    And my theory is right and hand analysis good but I can't beat 1/2.name your stakes and we will both play 50k hands and bet on results. Any amount you want. Ill even give you 2/1
  • OminousCowOminousCow Posts: 702Subscriber
    wildncrazyguy said
    Mike said

    Fold pre. Move down.
    I love these joker fish who slam on people saying move down when this guy is probably a losing 1-2 player. When you get to be a better LAG you can profitably play hands like Kx suited from late position. I know your Harrington book says dont play this hand but my online stats show I'm a winner w cirtually all of my opening range from late position which is pretty wide. I'm not a nit who raises 12% like you.
    You didn't open here. You called an early position raise with a hand that is dominated by a large portion of everyone's ranges ahead of you.

    I do respect your thought whats as you do seem like you know what your talking about in your posts. Again though I dont think this is terrible when most of the time I can out play my opponents with position.
    5 way pots are not good for outplaying people, especially on this type of board. You say in your description that the villain won't have an ace here most of the time, but I think his range looks like a ton of weak-medium aces and medium pocket pairs. Do you think he is taking this line to fold TT on the river to a half pot bet?

    BTW, the way to outplay the villain this hand is to *not* bluff this blank river.

    Seems like everyone is questioning the preflop hand selection. MY HAND IS IRRELEVANT HERE PEOPLE. I'M TURNING MY DRAWING HAND INTO A BLUFF. I'm asking peoples opinion on running the bluff here, not reponses from the nits who never play a weak suited K in position.
    Your hand is most definitely relevant here. Are you saying that you end up at this spot on the river with any two cards that you call preflop with?
  • whatsyourplay? Posts: 752Member
    Dan, no offense, but if you ask for feedback on a public forum and have four different posters tell you the same thing, it would be both polite and +EV to at least think about it for a while before refusing their advice.

    Calling with this hand preflop is -EV against decent competition, believe it or not.

    Also, if you think you can bluff profitably, then put villains on a range on each street and think about how they are going to react to your actions. Just closing your eyes and barreling off won't work out. What hands do you expect the villains to call the flop with on A2A but fold on the turn or river? With five people seeing a flop, somebody will have a decent Ace. Do,you really think he will fold an Ace even though you only flatcalled pre? You basically can't have AK or AQ, so any decent Ace is the nuts.

    The problem with this hand is that your line just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
  • Mike Posts: 371Member
    where is the line? if you are playing weak suited kings what about queens? Jacks?

    there is a line between lag and retarded. You sir have surpassed this line and cant even see it.

    dont you ever wonder why bart doesnt go over hands where he called an EP raise with a shit hand? I guess he is a bad nit too.
  • WackabrewWackabrew Posts: 400Subscriber
    wildncrazyguy said
    Mike said

    Fold pre. Move down.
    I love these joker fish who slam on people saying move down when this guy is probably a losing 1-2 player. When you get to be a better LAG you can profitably play hands like Kx suited from late position. I know your Harrington book says dont play this hand but my online stats show I'm a winner w cirtually all of my opening range from late position which is pretty wide. I'm not a nit who raises 12% like you.

    I do respect your thought whats as you do seem like you know what your talking about in your posts. Again though I dont think this is terrible when most of the time I can out play my opponents with position.

    Seems like everyone is questioning the preflop hand selection. MY HAND IS IRRELEVANT HERE PEOPLE. I'M TURNING MY DRAWING HAND INTO A BLUFF. I'm asking peoples opinion on running the bluff here, not reponses from the nits who never play a weak suited K in position.
    Dude. There is no need to belittle people. Mike's response might be a bit pithy, but it's pretty spot on considering some of the other feedback that was posted in this thread. You feel that you can play these types of hand profitably, the posts that you made seem to suggest otherwise (there have been at least three in the past couple of days that talk about playing weak suited As or Ks and getting into bad spots).

    It's something that I've mentioned before, but playing 1/2 live is MUCH different than playing 1/2 online. I know that this is 100NL, but the skill level is equivalent to at least 2/5, and good 100NL online players will crush 2/5 live.

    The pre-flop hand selection IS relevent, unless, as onimous said, you would end up in this exact same spot with ATC. The benefits of playing a weak suited K from in position are that it's a good hand to 3B pre-flop with to balance your range and gain fold equity (plus it's an easy hand to release to a 4B). If you get called, you have some way to make a hand. HOWEVER, it's not a hand that you should call raises with as it can be dominated by most PFR ranges.

    To answer your specific question, I do not like your specific play here. If you are planning on bluffing with this hand, 3B pre-flop, Lead flop if checked to (raise flop if donked in to), and then then evaluate turn depending on what Villian does in response to your action pre and post flop. The key, though, is that you have to also be capable of doing this with a nut or near nut hand, and it needs to be reflected in something that the Villian can see (HUD stats, previous history, etc), otherwise you will look FOS.

    As played, you aren't repping anything credible.
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