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2€/4€ OVP on drawy board, action turn

StACkOffStACkOff Posts: 71Member
edited April 2015 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Hey guys,

vilain is unknown to me, only play with him a few hands and seem to have a high PFR frequency in LP.

Hero BB 1.5k+ Q Q
vilain BU 1.1k
vilain2 SB 66€

PREFLOP
UTG UTG+1 UTG+2 fold, MP limp, HJ CO fold, BU raise to 20, SB calls 20, hero BB raise to 80, BU calls 80, SB calls and is all-in 66.

FLOP : pot 200 + side 28 2w oop
8 5 4
hero cb 110
vilain call 110

TURN : pot 200 + side 248
8 5 4 3
hero?

what line are you taking from there?
check? why?
bet? why? sizing?
what is vilain's perceived range at this point?

Comments

  • Tacoknight30 Posts: 1Subscriber
    I see very often in live games people calling light when a short stack is all in. Vilain is still getting a good price if he calls and he knows the short stack is going to get it in which at this point he's committed. When the flop comes out that wet and vilian calls your c bet I just can't put him of AA or KK. If he is playing this way with those hands I think he would run into trouble more often than not. All things considered I think you bet for value. You do have a big club in your hand which gives you more equity in case he's got a set.

    That would be the line I would take if knew the vilian was aggressive. If he's super tight your situation is tough. I'd say give him a good check raise if he bets out small. Put pressure on him. If he's really tight and goes all in on the turn he surely has you beat. I think you have the best hand here most of the time though all things considered.
  • StACkOffStACkOff Posts: 71Member
    up
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    If these players are sticky then raise more preflop..

    I think your raise size is fine for a normal game.. On the turn I am checking.. If villain bets I might call or fold depending on sizing and other live factors. Last thing I want to happen is to bet and get blown off what may be a live draw..

    ww
  • StACkOffStACkOff Posts: 71Member
    ok if you check, vilain is betting 250 turn, no specific live reads.
    what is his betting range turn?

    if you bet, and vilain raise, what live draw vilain might have?
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    StACkOff said:
    ok if you check, vilain is betting 250 turn, no specific live reads.
    what is his betting range turn?

    if you bet, and vilain raise, what live draw vilain might have?
    there is a dry side pot.. now some players are so clueless that they would bet with a worse hand then yours but you just have to check as his flat on the flop is very indicative of a draw.. the obvious draw hit and if he bets $250 its just probably a fold..yeah you are getting about 4:1 but you arent even sure your Q is live..

    most players are also afraid of the flush and if he doesnt have it very likely he will check it down with you. If he checks the turn behind and a brick comes on the river then I am inclined to bet small to get thin value from a worse pair. but it will need to be rather small. players with sets two pairs or even straights arent going to raise you on the river with the flush possible.. like $100 or $150..at most..

    ww
  • StACkOffStACkOff Posts: 71Member
    edited April 2015
    does vilain might have a live draw by betting the turn 250?
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    StACkOff said:
    does vilain might have a live draw by betting the turn 250?
    generally no I would think.. I mean what draw would they have that now the flush comes in they are betting?? I mean I guess someone could bet the ace flush draw but I just dont see that that often..

    I have seen player with pocket aces and the nut flush draw ship on that.. which is so dumb because if they have the ace flush other players are more likely to have the flush if they overcall that flop..

    ww

  • StACkOffStACkOff Posts: 71Member
    Last thing I want to happen is to bet and get blown off what may be a live draw..
    I mean what draw would they have that now the flush comes in they are betting??
    so from your perspective, vilain can blown you off with a draw by raising you if you bet,
    but he cannot do so if you check and he bet?
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    edited April 2015
    Depends on the size of the bet. Now most players dont bluff enough and you would know his frequency. But a standard player with a worse hand is going to check , Nut flushes will check. And made non nut flushes will bet relatively big
  • StACkOffStACkOff Posts: 71Member
    Last thing I want to happen is to bet and get blown off what may be a live draw..
    Now most players dont bluff enough and you would know his frequency
    Do you still think that vilain might bluff raise you if you bet?
    Imo, vilain's bluffing frequency will be higher if hero check than if hero bet. It's more difficult to bluff somebody facing a bet than bluffing somebody showing some weakness.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    if this villain has a higher frequency of bluffing then betting is better.. that said its very very low for your standard player..

    I get the feeling you are just really worried about getting bluffed.. players just dont in general bluff enough so its something you pretty much only have to worry when a player shows you they will.

    besides the pot is protected.. him bluffing you doesnt do anything to the main pot..he would have to show a bluff and most players wont do that either..

    ww
  • StACkOffStACkOff Posts: 71Member
    besides the pot is protected.. him bluffing you doesnt do anything to the main pot..he would have to show a bluff and most players wont do that either
    There is a side pot of 248, that might give a reason to bluff.

    TURN:
    Hero bets 232
    Vilain goes AI 910
    Hero action??

    Can hero find a call here?
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    ok im done .. I have told you why its not generally a bluff.. but you seem hell bent on preventing one. Doing that in the long run is just not as +EV as not worrying so much.

    good luck..

    ww
  • StACkOffStACkOff Posts: 71Member
    edited April 2015
    I like to 2barrel in this spot for value, giving vilain's calling range flop, I want to keep the lead, get the river at my price with Qc. I value 66 77 99 TT JJ 8X dry and with a club.
    Imo there not much combo raising this turn, only the top portion of his value range which might slowplay sometime.
    I expected to be raise by Khigh Flush and below flushes.
    Vilain might consider raising str8 and set since I don't have much flushes in my range, but we commonly see people just calling with it on FD in turn.
  • StACkOffStACkOff Posts: 71Member
    Thehammah said:
    ok im done .. I have told you why its not generally a bluff.. but you seem hell bent on preventing one. Doing that in the long run is just not as +EV as not worrying so much.

    good luck..

    ww
    Ok thank you for your insight.
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