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Hammah vs "Blondie"

ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
edited April 2015 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
recently at my local 5/5 game a new young gal started playing. she recently moved to LA from vegas and has been playing the games with me. She buys in for $500 or only 100bbs and generally she plays very tight.

She also makes some rather backwards plays although I am not sure if they will always work as other better players adapt. If she is the pfr she is going to check two pair plus..even on wet boards.. she does this to trap.. she will however bet her one pair hands draws and bluffs..

Soooo when she bets I basically can almost always cap her range at one pair..

on to the hand..

Hero has a great image.. been making moves and hardly ever showing down any hands...except when I am good. I have over $1800..

Villain has sat down in the game a short time earlier.. has $500 ish..

Hero opens in co to $20 with 8 6 villain is only player to call.

She tends to play tighter..but I have seen her 3 bet with as little as AJ against a range she felt was wider.. So in this case I think she can be calling me wider.. Maybe broadway cards weak ace small to med pairs..

Flop Pot ($45) A 8 6

gotta luv that fop.. she checks I bet $35.. I want to keep her in.. this board is kinda polarized so If she doesnt have an ace I think she is likely to fold. She calls after a moment.. She used to tank alot.. and I mean almost every hand.. then I told her I would call the clock if she didnt speed up a bit.. every since she is better and generally takes a sec before she makes a decision. there isnt any read on this ..

Turn pot ($115) .. 5

she checks and hero bets $65.. since I block middle and bottom set its also unlikely she has a better two pair I want to get action on all of her one pair aces and flush draws..

She check raises me to $185....

So I was a bit surprised.. I havent every seen her check raise on the turn. especially if she has 2 pair plus.. she always slowplays that til river because with her 500 stack she can always get it in.

Soooo.. if she is capped at one pair an ace a draw or a bluff what is heroes best play???

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Comments

  • JT00 Posts: 193Subscriber
    Sorry Wendy, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on this. I don't think you can so simply say she is capped at one pair or a bluff in this spot.

    You mentioned that you have a good image and only shown down good hands. Your double barrell on this board looks VERY strong. I just don't think you're going to see a turn check-raise by a bluff or a naked Ace.

    I also don't think you can say she ALWAYS slow plays until the river. She easily could have slow played the flop and then decided to bump the turn when there are a lot of cards that can kill her hand or her action on the river (heart, 9, 7, 4).

    You block bottom and middle set, but those are certainly still in her range with one combo of each. She could also easily have A8 or A6. She easily could have one timed you on the flop with A5 and then caught Aces up on the turn. She could have also flopped and open ender with 97.

    Let's say she calls preflop with 88, 66, A8s, A6s, A5s, and 97s. That's 12 combos of hands that you lose to. I just think there are too many combos of hands that you lose to vs the times you have to parlay her taking that line with a bluff or a naked Ace.

    JT
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    JT

    I hear what you are saying.. but I have played many hours with her.. If she had flopped a set on that kind of wet board she would have raised right away..

    So then I have bottom two pair.. what big hands can she have on the turn?? Set of AA? she would have raised flop.. So basically in my mind she has draws that hit a pair of 5s and shes bluffing (of which I have also seen her do) or she actually hit a straight.

    So she would have had to call me with either 79 or 74.. if she has 79 hh I think she is absolutely check raising me on that flop as well. So given her general tight image what do we have here but a conundrum..

    she is repping a hand she generally doesnt play. 79 is certainly more likely but If I include 3 combs (the non heart ones since she would have raised) that leaves maybe 20% of the non suited combos too. So say another 2 or 3..

    now pairs plus draws she is semi bluffing there are alot more.. she can have 56 57 75 A7 etc.. all trying to rep something that normal non hand readers would get worried about..

    you see what I am saying here??? Her turn raise isnt repping anything but a slowplay AA ..

    ww
  • pandabird Posts: 48Subscriber
    I would say the only likely hands that you're ahead of on the turn that she could take this line with might be Ah7h, maybe even some other A7 suited. If she had Ahxh on the flop, do you think she would check raise the flop with a high frequency? If she doesn't do that on the flop, why would she wait until the turn to check raise? What other hands might she being doing this with that you are winning against? A naked flush draw or straight draw? Just a naked ace? Doubtful.

    I agree that all the combos that beat you that JT mentioned above are consistent with her line. Let's see...the pot is $365, $120 for you to call. Getting 3-1, not sure you're good here 25% of the time. If you just call to evaluate the river, she's only got about a half-pot sized bet left. She'll probably shove any river (unless the board pairs and that scares her), so unless you're willing to call off the river bet, I'd just fold the turn and not feel too bad about it. But you play with her, so maybe she gives up on her semi-bluffs if she misses?

    I'm assuming she was in the SB or BB? If she was completing the action does she have any frequency of flatting AA there since the pot would be HU? She might not want to 3 bet thinking your range from opening in the HJ is wide and that you might fold to her 3-bet (especially since she's considered to be a tight player). If so, there's 3 combos of AA in her range as well.
  • BartBart Posts: 5,917AdministratorLeadPro
    What does it mean when the board is polarized?
  • Johnny_UtahJohnny_Utah Posts: 402Subscriber
    edited April 2015
    What about any A X

    Specifically like a small suited A hand....you mentioned you think that she could def be calling you wider. Would she raise a A 2 - A 3 - A 4

    She could be worried about her kicker and hoping to take the pot away now or build in case the FD comes in...

  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    Bart said:
    What does it mean when the board is polarized?
    Where is ilcd when we need him. When an ace flops she either would fold other than an ace or she has some draw. Maybe im not describing that well. But that was what i was trying to convey
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    Johnny_Utah said:
    What about any A X

    Specifically like a small suited A hand....you mentioned you think that she could def be calling you wider. Would she raise a A 2 - A 3 - A 4

    She could be worried about her kicker and hoping to take the pot away now or build in case the FD comes in...

    Why would she flat flop and raise turn. That would basically mean only A h 5 h
  • DrGambol Posts: 724Subscriber
    Thehammah said:


    She also makes some rather backwards plays although I am not sure if they will always work as other better players adapt. If she is the pfr she is going to check two pair plus..even on wet boards.. she does this to trap.. she will however bet her one pair hands draws and bluffs..

    Thehammah said:
    JT

    I hear what you are saying.. but I have played many hours with her.. If she had flopped a set on that kind of wet board she would have raised right away..

    Umm wat?
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    sorry I should have been a bit clearer.. In the first hand she was the pfr.. in the second hand she wasnt..

    that seems to make a big difference in her play.

    ww
  • MrFizzbinMrFizzbin Posts: 356Subscriber
    This smells of A5 or 97 but I doubt she'd call w 97.

    Put on your Blonde wig and flip the script, what is Blondies read of your hand what does she think you have based on your play....
  • beauregard Posts: 1,592Subscriber
    edited April 2015
    What position is she in?
    cuz if she's in the BB, she could have Q T here - :lol:!

    But seriously, ww - I trust your reads...
    so if she's got a one pair hand, I think it's got a 7 in it... A7, 87, 67, 57...
    It may be of - but as you've said, if he had a Str8 AND flush draw - she's probably making more noise earlier.

    Other hands that make somewhat-sense would be 77 or 99 (maybe even TT) if she thinks you don't have the A. (Your betting does look weak. Sorry.)

    But the hand that makes the most sense is 97s - probably of - so she's raising for value and is afraid of the draw.

    If she ain't got 2-pair+, then you should punish her with the pile... for the full $500.

    Take THAT blondie!
    Don't mess with Da Hammah!
  • boredoo Posts: 223Subscriber
    beau and wendy, sittin in a tree...
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    lol..

    So I have wondered how hard it is to convey in a thread the live reads one gets playing with some folks..

    So my main question is if I feel villain is pretty much FOS.. ie she really doesnt have imho many 97s in her range.. should I ship or not???

    If I do ship if she does actually have a draw she is going to have to call.. with the pot being almost 800 250 ish to call she can only fold say a gutshot..

    Spoiler:
    well I think I chickened out and only called...

    River 4 and she tanked forever... then checked... In my experience with her she has done this before when she wants to you check behind but she is going to call anyways..
  • beauregard Posts: 1,592Subscriber
    worst river, ever

    Spoiler:
    so you check and she's got a str8?
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    edited April 2015
    beauregard said:
    worst river, ever

    Spoiler:
    so you check and she's got a str8?
    yeah I didnt like it.. obviously.. there were really only three cards I really didnt want to see (other than the board pairing other cards that the 8 or 6) and the 4 hearts was one of them. the other two were the 9 h & Th.. that makes the other straight....

    well here is what happened..

    Spoiler:
    she checks after her long pause..and as i said before she does this alot on the river and it doesnt mean shes folding.. I check behind obviously and she says "straight" and flips over K 7

    I am not sure how to convey the importance of live reads and really getting to know players you play with alot.. there are some things that no matter how well I or anyone else tries to explain its just hard to get across in a thread.

    She floated with only backdoor draws and one over on an ace high board vs a good opponent.. she obviously doesnt think I am as good as I am otherwise this would just be a stupid play. and I almost let her bluff her whole stack off.

    So now that I know she is capable of trying to rep a big hand with just an oesd.. next time I wont be chicken to push her all in.

    cant wait for Hams vs Blondie round II.. she might have wiggled her way out of this one but not in the long run.. she has no idea who she is dealing with.. he he..
    :wink:
  • fishcake Posts: 954Subscriber
    I think calling is a pretty big mistake given her stack size on the turn. Ship or fold, and probably ship.
  • pandabird Posts: 48Subscriber
    I think shoving the turn is bad since every single value hand that beats hero's hand is in villain's range... How often does she actually show up with just an oesd here? I'd still say that way more often the check raise on the turn is for value, not a bluff.

    I do agree it is very hard to convey live reads and to demonstrate any history with a player in a forum. She very well probably does usually slow play her big hands like you said, but we obviously can't say a player always does this or that. She might have thought your sizing on the turn looked weak, so she decided to make a move on you. Or maybe she was pissed because you said you'd start calling clock on her for taking so long with her decisions ;) Anyways, I just think we're being a little results oriented here when she showed up with the bluff this time around. I'm sure you will get the best of her next time though! She's going to get annihilated if she keeps making plays like that on a regular basis with a shallow stack.

  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    I think one of my two biggest strengths in poker are

    1) moving to better tables
    2) pegging players betting tendencies and how that relates to hand ranges..

    so far she has not adjusted... as clearly shown in this hand. I thought about the weak looking bet on the turn but I wanted her to call me light. even if I had her cr was too small. I am only folding my complete air.. If I had an ace or a flush draw shes never getting me off my hand with that raise.. so that was kinda weird..

    I use the second "gift" the most now.. I think it enables me to call more than I ever had.. and its very scary to others.. she never saw what I had since I was in pos..

    one thing I could do next time is bet a little larger.. then shes forced to make it basically all in or fold.. but I want her to make these moves against me.. like the kid in philly a few months ago that played absolutely backwards and he check raised the turn too. I called him down on a 4 straight board because there was NO way he would have played the hand that way.. I was right there as well and I only played with that guy a few hours..

    I think the moral of the story is this.. Players tend to play a certain way that is predictive over a period of time. How long you need is directly based on their skill level. ie the worse they are the more obvious they are. the better the harder it will be ..

    My game now is at a level far above what I thought was possible. but I still take all of that and then say "what would the rec player do" and then proceed..

    what she was telling me was that " I have a big hand since I raised you on the turn" but having played with her alot I thought it very likely she didnt have a big hand based on her previous play. so then why tell me this with that check raise.. To get me to fold. why get me to fold? because she was bluffing..

    I am still unsure of the turn call or ship though. sure if she had a better hand although not sure what it could be.. 55s is possible if shes floating me with K7.. but I should have put her all in if I felt she was bluffing.. just like Dave did with that guy a few weeks ago.

    ww
  • chilidog Posts: 2,427Subscriber
    Just be mindful in the near future if you play with her again to see if she is capable of adjusting and/or is she has adjusted to playing against you. I agree that just because she showed up with a semi-bluff here doesn't mean she will be c'ring you so light in the future.

    Spoiler:
    Btw : this wasn't the blonde who you pointed out to me who's wild with big boobs , is it?
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    No it wasnt. Lol.

    So far almost none of the regs have adjusted but I promise to keep an eye out.
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