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PLO8: Turn Two Pair, 2nd NL & NFD

Preflop: V in UTG1 raises to $20. Two MP callers. Hero calls OTB with As3s4dKd. BB calls.

Flop ($100) Ks7d6s. V cbets $70. MP2 and Hero call (?).

Turn ($310) Ks7d6s4c. V bets $150 MP2 calls AI for $125. Hero? V has $2000 more and Hero covers.

Hero has a winning image and one of the more aggressive players at the table.

V won a big 3way flop AI earlier to build his stack. Guessing he is in his 50s. He is a typical live PLO8 player. Plays too loose pre-flop and mostly passive. Pre-flop raises mean a very good hand. Post-flop is uncreative and mostly passive. Big bets and raises mean he has a great hand. So, I read his turn sizing here to often mean that he has a good, but not great hand.

Comments

  • AesahAesah Posts: 1,048Pro
    seems like a standard raise to me
  • High__Rolla Posts: 775Subscriber
    Aesah said:
    seems like a standard raise to me
    Are you potting or something less?

  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    Yeah raise flop big time! I am going to pot it or close to pot. I want anyone with say A2xx or Kxxx to pay for any equity they have
  • High__Rolla Posts: 775Subscriber
    Thehammah said:
    Yeah raise flop big time! I am going to pot it or close to pot. I want anyone with say A2xx or Kxxx to pay for any equity they have
    Did you mean the turn? Or are you also potting this flop?
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    Flop. You have top pair and nut flush draw. You want to gin your high hand while charging all the bozos with A2xx.

    Ie if someone has say KQxx. You dont want to given a free look at hitting their kicker. Especially when you have such a nice low draw too
  • High__Rolla Posts: 775Subscriber
    Thehammah said:
    Flop. You have top pair and nut flush draw. You want to gin your high hand while charging all the bozos with A2xx.
    I think you are correct and I made a mistake on the flop. I figured the PFR had a really good hand to cbet into the field like AA2x, AK2x, AA3x, or similar, and wouldn't fold. But after running the equities I dont think I care.
  • DrGambol Posts: 724Subscriber
    Raise the flop. Charging A2 to try and win half is pretty awesome. We have a ton of equity against pretty much every hand anyway. We're doing pretty well with NFD, gutter (which is probably good way more often in PLO8 vs PLO), top pair, and a 2 to the nut low. Such a dream flop.
  • Dusty Posts: 233Subscriber
    edited May 2015
    I am not sure about raising anywhere here. I see the strength of our hand, but all it takes for us to be completely drawing is a A35X hand and obv that type of hand is a strong possibility for a 50's OMC banging away on the pot. "plays mostly passive" If we get it in are we just hoping he has AA2 in which case we are chopping at the moment. Maybe OOP we want to push back the action but in position and so deep don't we want to play poker and not get it in with non nut holdings in either direction and only a NFD + GS + FH draw?

    Raising seems a little to gambol gambol to me so deep.

    Those advocating raising the flop and/or the turn ~ what do you put a 50 year old passive OMC's range on to get it in here?
  • DrGambol Posts: 724Subscriber
    Running a bunch of simulations, you're flipping against most of his continuing range and block the things we're behind to.

    Against AA2X, we are 50%.
    Against KKxx, we are 58%.
    Against AK72, we are 40%.
    Against A2KK, we are 33%
    Against A23K, we are 53%.
    Against A2Xx, we are 65%
    Against A72X, we are 60%.

    We're pretty much never in that big of trouble. The only hands we are in semi bad shape against are KKA2 and AK72/AK62 and we block the K and A.

    So basically, I'd be raising to both fold out hands that have legitimate equity but can't continue to a raise (pair plus low draw but no flush draws like A753). And I'm also building the pot against legitimate hands we're flipping against in case we hit. If we hit a flush, we can scoop. We can build a pot against a naked A2 low draw and scoop with one pair on bricks. There's just so many good things that can happen when we raise flop compared to the bad things that happen when we flat, like letting weak hands realize their equity, letting nut low draws draw cheaply, and not increase the pot size against non nut flush draws.
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