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Yet another misplay against fish

UntreatableFPS Posts: 1,004Subscriber
edited November -1 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
I got the sense that villain was kind of a donk, but he hadn't been at the table for long enough for me to recognize specific tendencies yet. He just played like he had no concept of relative hand strength

2/5 $600 effective
Tight guy limps in EP
I have TcTs in MP and make it 20
Fishy villain calls in BB
UTG tags along

$62 flop 663r
Checked to me and I bet $30
Villain raises to $70
UTG folds
I call
I'm fairly sure he's either being a monkey with a small pair or bluffing because I got the sense that he would slowplay a 6 or 33. Did I make a mistake by not 3-betting flop? I just didn't want to give bluffs an excuse to stop

Turn 6
Villain bets $150
I call again
I should have just shoved turn? Thoughts?

River 6
Check check

...
And guess what the moron had

Comments

  • chilidog Posts: 2,427Subscriber
    Q9?
  • bobo1384 Posts: 145Subscriber
    On the flop I think villains range consists of under pocket pairs,67s, 56s,A6s,A3, and some bluffs with paint cards. I would probably cbet a little bigger but also I would just call the raise. With the intention of calling a turn bet or value betting if checked to me.

    On the turn, I think he has 5 combos containing a 6, and 18+ combos of worse full houses. I think here we shove and we get looked up by worse full houses here.

    I shove turn here and feel good about it
  • kdogmc Posts: 100Subscriber
    I feel if you think he is a fish, he's not check raising the flop. Because if he had a 6 he might check /call with the nuts. Fish love to slowplay the nuts. True fish love to misplay and throw a ton of money trying to be sneaky or drawy, but when they
    have the nuts or a strong hand they get all slowplay and cautious.

    I have some players in my game and they just throw money in on draw or trying to be sneaky. But if they have the best hand or near it they move into slow motion.

    I'm curious how this ends because at the same time his raise is kind of thought out. Like a min raise then he pulverizes the turn.
    Feels like real strength.

    I'd have to get a real read. I think I call the turn and feel out the river.
  • Mike Posts: 371Member
    I think shoving turn is best since he's not folding a 3 now or 44-99 but on a over card river he will slow down.

    I bet he had JT
  • UntreatableFPS Posts: 1,004Subscriber
    You guys are giving his preflop calling range waaay too much respect ;)

    He had J3...sooted!

    I'm not sure if he was betting for value or turning his hand into a bluff or just betting because he hit the flop

    I wonder if he would have called turn if I shoved. Zeebo's theorem would say yes, so maybe I accidentally saved money by playing suboptimally
  • Arenzano Posts: 1,464Subscriber
    Claire
    It doesnt matter what the villain had, ask yourself if you played the profitably. You sound results oriented over a few hands playing against supposed fish and you are projecting how you think these should play. Short term results one way or the other dont matter when your view is long term.
  • UntreatableFPS Posts: 1,004Subscriber
    I posted this mainly because I was checking out what I could have done on the flop and turn. I felt like it would be a better line, in general, to shove the turn.

    And because I get a little mini tilt when people play ridiculous garbage hands against me OOP and I lose, so I felt like venting somewhere

    I was saying that I think the best line was actually either to click back the flop and keep betting or shove the turn. So I'm suggesting that I actually didn't play it optimally and got lucky that I saved money when he would have sucked out on me.
  • Arenzano Posts: 1,464Subscriber
    Was the $20 PFR standard for the table? That seems too low in my experience; although, I understand game dynamics are always a moving target. If he is a "standard" player, what is he raising you with here? 6x, 33, 45, overpairs to your TT. Perhaps reraising the flop would have been best. He basically minraised you. If you came over the top of him making it $120, you can either fold if he comes back over the top or leads the turn. If he checks the turn and river you can value bet there.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    Claire

    If the guy is really as big a bozo and you think then he isnt going to fold a worse hand. I really think this is your issue with these guys. You are playing so far above their heads they just dont get it. Stop doing it. play abc and take these guys to value town. thats all you can do.

    Of all people on this forum you know how I get upset when I get bad beated. you are so good a player but this is the thing you need to master. dumb players are so +ev but dont get ahead of yourself

    I think you played it fine. you are probably not getting called after he checks on the river but you have so much showdown value I dont blame the check back. unless you specifically think you can actually get him to fold a K or Q then I dont think its worth it..

    keep the faith girlfriend. you one of the best players I know! Cool

    ww
  • whatsyourplay? Posts: 752Member
    I think you played the hand fine, too.
    It's just bad luck, but the other 8 out of 10 times you win this hand and don't think about it much afterwards.
  • OminousCowOminousCow Posts: 702Subscriber
    I think against this sort of villain and this sizing I 3bet the flop for value by making it something like $150 and then betting $200 on turn and shoving river almost regardless of what comes off. I don't think flatting the flop will induce from hands that would not just call you down.

    I think raising the turn with the flop line you took is fine.

    On the river, I think you should strongly consider bluffing since he will sometimes have a hand like he had (3x where x>ten) that he will snap fold to any bet. You definitely beat a bunch of his range on the river, but bluffing out the portion of his range that you can't show down against is a good idea.
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