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Is this too much of a "hero fold"?

Ranceg29 Posts: 4Subscriber
edited November -1 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Im playing in a weekday morning 1/2 $300 max game full of passive players the other day when this hand comes up. Table has no huge fish but not exactly a bunch of all stars either. Pots arent getting too big and nobodys really making moves. Not a lot of preflop raising.

Hero has $400 and should have a very solid image.
Villain 1 has $300 (30ish white male) has only been at the table for a few minutes but I've seen him around and he's not a maniac by any means. Doesn't strike me as a great player tho. very recreational.
Villain 2 has $200 is unknown mid 50's white guy


Villain 1 is UTG+1 and opens to $15 in a straddled pot. (straddler is a passive player fwiw) which is a strong raise so far for this table which has mostly been limp happy.

Villain 2 calls in MP
Villain 3 calls in CO

Hero wakes up with QQ in the BB and re-raises to $45 (too small???)
-I felt at the time that this raise was a little small but I also felt that if Villain 1 came over the top I would def be up against Aces or Kings and could get away from the hand.

All 3 villains call and the pot is $185
I have Villain 1 on a range of 88+,AK,AQs and assume hes set mining at this point with his pp's since my hand is largely defined.

Flop is T95 (two spades) pot $185

Hero bets $100 I feel at this point I get value from pocket jacks and If I get raised Im up against a set or maybe even aces. My thought is that my betting line is so strong (for this particular table) that I dont really expect anyone to make a move on me in here.

Villain 1 Min raises to $200 with about $55 behind (I dont think he does this with Jacks)
Villain 2 SNAP CALLS his whole stack $150
Villain 3 folds

At this point im going to have to get in $255 more here...pot is $635
I assume I CAN't be good here and fold.

Villain 1 shows A6 of spades
Villain 2 shows unsuited AT and my head explodes when board bricks out and a pair of tens wins

Without being too results oriented I ask if I should have just stuck it in based on SPR alone.
I know to be a good player you have to throw the best hand away sometimes but It really tough to get out of 1/2 if your throwing away $600 pots

Comments

  • bobo1384 Posts: 145Subscriber
    dont post the results in the future. It affects the replies.

    preflop, i would 3bet larger to around $75-$80 or so.

    On the flop I Cbet a bit bigger. After everyone raises I wouldn't be surprised to see sets/two pair but im still putting it all in. Even with sets/two pairs in their range, the board is wet enough that you cant exclude them from having straight/flush draws, combo draws, JJ, and one pair hands like AT in their range. The stacks would need to be deeper for me to find a fold and even then probably not on the flop.
  • Mike Posts: 371Member
    I'm def 3 betting a bit larger but not too much. Prob
    Around 60 or so. As played I'm likely just gonna check jam. Try and make your hand look like a missed ak or something. I don't think it's that big a deal if the flop gets checked through. If I decide to cb I'm prob never folding. Might even just ship.

    I think CRAI is best though since it keeps villains ranges wide.
  • jmc Posts: 58Member
    Mike said

    I'm def 3 betting a bit larger but not too much. Prob
    Around 60 or so. As played I'm likely just gonna check jam. Try and make your hand look like a missed ak or something. I don't think it's that big a deal if the flop gets checked through. If I decide to cb I'm prob never folding. Might even just ship.

    I think CRAI is best though since it keeps villains ranges wide.
    I agree with 3-betting larger. However, if you check this flop and everyone else checks, it's pretty bad - turn will be a wild guessing game if an ace, king or spade falls. Bet/crying call with the stack sizes seems ok.
  • AnthonyBaldwin Posts: 12Subscriber
    Your original question contains the answer to the question. SPR was less than 2 for the effective big stack (300). Just don't let this experience affect you later when a situation looks the same as this but a piece of the puzzle is different. Put is behind you, slow down and that money those guys were trying to give away will find its way to your pocket.
  • floppedawheel Posts: 1,063Subscriber
    i actually think it's pretty close -- it's tough without much history with Villain 1. i think you can almost eliminate KK from his range -- your raise pre was small and he knows that if he flats, it will go three and probably four-way. he doesn't want that with kings. AA is in his range -- much more likely to flat pre than with KK -- but you have to discount that hand some. what does that leave that you're beat by? a set of 9s or Ts.

    what about Villain 2? he could easily have a set as well, any of the three sets.

    i'd say it looks like you're beat here the majority of the time, for sure. but you're getting 4-to-1. are you good here 1 out of 5 times? deliberating too much over this is probably not worth it because it's just so close. if it's close, i'd rather call than fold, in part because random players often make plays that just make no sense and that defy analysis. and if they could simply be doing something that makes no sense, it skews you toward being good more often. plus, i'd rather lose money by going for it than lose money by folding. it's a stretch for an argument, i guess, but i say call.

    and yes, raise more pre -- to 60 or 70. otherwise you're inviting multi-way action with QQ and you don't want that. and yes, unless you want to induce action, bet more on flop as well. 130 or so.

    but don't sweat this one too much.
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