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Rthh. Plo nuts vs uber nit

ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
Im playing the 1/3 plo mix game and we are on the high round.

Vil- uber tight only raises w AAxx. Has 300 which is a huge stack for him. Always buys in for 100 so has won some pots.

Hero has villain covered.

Vil raises pot over 1 limper to 13 from mp. This always AAxx. Hero on btn. Calls. J 9 8 T Four players to flop. Pot $53.

Flop. J 7 9

Villain bets pot. I assume he has AA and prob a flush draw.



  • High__Rolla Posts: 775Subscriber
    What position are other two and approx stack sizes?

    If V is as tight as described, then he must have AA:cc or his side cards made a straight or set. Regardless, you are favorite so I would pot to try to get the money in now. If someone else has a straight, you get to free roll.
  • PocketAceTrader782 Posts: 439Subscriber
    edited May 2015
    If you think the player is the type to overplay naked aces without a flush draw you can bet pot I don't think he is ever folding an overpair and a flush draw. I'm thinking that he has some type of draw with his aces to bet pot here. So yeah I would raise to pot and get the money in there with these stack sizes.

    Sometimes you will run into a hand like AAQT but you got some full house outs if that's the case.

  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    I am on the button he is two to my right ....

    he is so transparent that I basically put him on aces and ace high flush draw.. with the nut straight and top two pair I just felt he was never folding and I needed to get it in..

    so I potted all in for 300 ish..

    he snap calls.. (lol)..

    he bricks out and shows AAc Qc x

    so with his hand if I were him I am not potting flop but rather check calling.. knowing that the texture of that board hits alot of callers and I want to draw to my nut flush as cheaply as possible...he started complaining about how he never wins..

    about an hour later he gets it all in for a 1200 pot when another bozo player pots turn with what must have been a worse straight in PLO8.. this villain had QT for nut straight and redraw to dias and scoops.. there was a low on the board too.. lol.. juicy game..

  • DrGambol Posts: 724Subscriber
    Top two and a straight against a guy that only plays AAxx and we can pot it all in? I'd pot it. Not even close. No reason to flat and let naked flush draws have odds to call behind us.
  • BradleyT Posts: 621SubscriberProfessional
    I don't fault him at all for playing it the way he did. With AA+ clubs I'm always leading this flop. You get plenty of worse to call (KK with flush draw/K-high flush with gutter, QT with clubs) and can get better to fold (2 pair combos). Checking AA+clubs and letting KQ get a free T or 86 get a free 5 or T is a huge mistake.

    You happen to have him in bad shape because of your 2-pair but when you don't have that he's fine in calling it off given stack sizes. Standard play on both parts.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    Thanks bradley. I am still learning plo and having better players review hands is super helpful

    What about his sizing?

  • BradleyT Posts: 621SubscriberProfessional
    It's live low stakes PLO where 90% of bets are POT and verbal. I honestly don't think most of our bad opponents know any better or even know why they should ever not bet pot.

    In this case I think all the hands he wants to keep in are inelastic to bet sizing - $30 or $45 - they're calling both sizes with equal frequency so lean towards bigger. If I were him I'd put $40-50 in $5 chips out there without saying anything. That's probably the same thing I'd do with top set + gutter, KKQ with flush draw, straight draws like TJQK with clubs, etc... Not for balance just because those are all really good equity hands that can fold out currently better.

    But my guess is that guy rarely bets anything but pot, he's not thinking about bet sizes.
  • chilidog Posts: 2,427Subscriber
    edited May 2015
    Thehammah said:

    What about his sizing?
    I don't like betting pot here on the flop if I'm villain unless I am fully comfortable getting my stack in. Which in a multiway pot with such a connected board , I am definitely not looking to get my chips in the middle ASAP. I assume I'm way behind if lots of chips start going in the middle , meaning the pair of aces in my hand would be essentially irrelevant.

    In villain's shoes, I'm probably x/c the flop and x/f turn unimproved (depending on my opponent's sizing).

  • chilidog Posts: 2,427Subscriber
    Thehammah said:

    J 9 8 T Four players to flop. Pot $53.

    Flop. J 7 9

    Villain bets pot. I assume he has AA and prob a flush draw.

    I'm raising right away before he loses hope with his AAxx + flush draw and I'm basing my sizing off of the strength he's showing by potting multiway. Which means I'm probably raising fairly large (tho I almost never say "pot" in a live poker game).

    Btw: to some other posters itt, I just want to make sure people are aware that hero flopped nut straight plus top 2 redraw. It seemed like some responses were geared toward hero having only 2 pair.
  • BradleyT Posts: 621SubscriberProfessional
    Different games in different parts of the country. PLO is probably way looser here locally than in LA (especially the $1/3 they had on LATB a while back). It's 10 handed and very very often I'm the only one who folded whether it was limped around or 2-bet.

    The reason I lead AA:cc on that flop is like I said, I get all kinds of action from hands I have crushed and in bad shape like KK:cc QQT:cc, bad wraps, etc...of course some hands like WW's are going to have us in pretty bad shape.

    When they run $1/2 and $1/2-5 PLO locally they cannot run the bigger PLO games. But the $5/5 and $5/10 PLO guys (businessmen) sit down and bring their money and egos with them. It reminds me of how loose/bad live NLHE was back in 2004/2005.
  • chilidog Posts: 2,427Subscriber
    With much deeper stacks (where I can continue vs a raise) or shorter stacks (where getting it in is a no brainer), I like leading with nut flush draw.

    At this stack depth , we are almost always behind on that type of board if stacks go in and I really hate bet/folding this flop.
  • chilidog Posts: 2,427Subscriber
    BradleyT said:
    Different games in different parts of the country. PLO is probably way looser here locally than in LA (especially the $1/3 they had on LATB a while back).
    LA is locally if u live in LA.
  • reedmylipsreedmylips Posts: 1,145Subscriber
    If a villain like this only opens with AAxx, then pots this flop, he is NEVER folding, and I'm potting it with your hand without hesitation. He's basically announcing his hand with his bets. He is never bet/folding flop. It sounds like this player is so bad that he might do this with red aces as well, and just "go with it lol." Live pokerz...
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    edited May 2015
    So a little more background on villain. I have been playing with him for years. Bart and I talked a little about this on the call in show. There are a number of 20/40 eo players that have switched to this 1/3 plo game. But they pkay kinda like they did when it was a limit game.

    This guy was an uber nit then and hasnt adapted. The game is rather interesting between uber nits that buy in for 100 and hardly play a hand and players that play virtually every hand. I try to play fairly loose but still tighter than most players.

    This guy will call alot but he just never raises. So putting him on AAcxc and probably a broadway card was soooooo easy.

    I never considered ever folding. I was just wondering if it was better to raise or not. But going with the adage that nits never fold once they actually play a hand and I wanted to get others to fold hands that might out draw me like gutters etc out of the pot.

    Even if he had nut flush draw which was very likely I though my two pair gave me some extra equity in case he hit his flush on the turn.

    So with him having such a big stack I wanted to get it all in before a scare card came. Thus my pot raise. He snapped of course. And as I said earlier he complained about always losing. Lol. Well dah.
  • laphonso Posts: 70Subscriber
    no offense. i dont understand the question here... raise get all in? like what else could we do?
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    I have only been playing plo for a little while and just wanted to make sure this isnt a flat wait for a non flush card

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