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2/5 KK in BB vs UTG limp-ReRaise ~300bb deep

ClockClock Posts: 1,092Subscriber
edited June 2015 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
This was an interesting hand that got me thinking...

Villain in the hand is a pretty bad player, station and POW.
I've seen him in casino a lot, so I'm assuming he's a reg, semi-reg.
I've seen him make pretty horrendous calls on river with TP where it was obv it's no good and then show his hand, as in saying - "Look I had TOP PAIR - I "had" to call" - LOL :???:

Villan (1400) limps UTG, folded to SB (very short ~150) who calls, HERO (Covers) in BB looks at KK makes it 30,
V1 thinks for a sec, now asks SB how much he has. Says: "You got like 150 or so right?"
V1 limp Re-raises to 130, SB folds.
HERO?

I thought this was quite a situation cause obv limp re-raise from UTG is KK or AA like 99% of the time, but this guy is so bad who knows.. and if I 4bet and he ships I don't think I can fold to him because he's so bad.
On the other hand, he very well migh fold a medium PP to my 4bet.
So considering all that and beeing 1400 deep, I decided to take the flop.

What are your thoughts here?

Flop (260): 668 2suit - I check, he bets 160 - I decided to peel one off and re-evaluate on turn.
I'm still putting him on a PP could be AA...could be any PP like 99+
Turn (580): Ao

My first gut reaction was - that's a bad card, but after I thought about it for a few seconds I realized I LOVE it!!! :tu:
Now chances of him having AA are much much lower, plus I figured he's gonna be scared of me having AK, maybe AQ (even though it doesn't make sense for me to call flop with AK, AQ - but I'm just not giving him credit to put that together), so I decided to check and re-evaluate based on his action sizing.

So HERO checks after thinking for a bit, V bets 175
Now, I was pretty relieved and pretty convinced he has some kind of PP between 99-QQ.
So I decided to call with intention of betting river for value considering how much of a POW he is.

So, Turn (580): Ao - HERO checks, V bets 175, HERO calls

River (930): Qo
What's your river play?

Spoiler:

I decided to go along with my plan and I bet out 300 hoping to get looked up by some PP.
Villain considered it for a little bit and then calmly moved ALL-IN for like 950

At this point, I was obv disgusted.
I figured my read was completely wrong and he had AA all along :(
So I folded and he showed me QQ :cry: :cry: :cry:



Comments

  • Arenzano Posts: 1,386Subscriber
    Pre flop, I would 4! to around $275-300. Fold to a 5!

    As played, check call flop, check call turn, check fold river. I would imagine he is not value betting PP beneath a Q or KK.
  • dpbuckdpbuck Posts: 1,977SubscriberProfessional
    Arenzano said:
    Pre flop, I would 4! to around $275-300. Fold to a 5!

    As played, check call flop, check call turn, check fold river. I would imagine he is not value betting PP beneath a Q or KK.
    Yep, this is it.
  • ClockClock Posts: 1,092Subscriber
    What's the purpose of 4b pre?
    Do we think Villain calling 4b with hand like 99-TT?
  • dpbuckdpbuck Posts: 1,977SubscriberProfessional
    Bad players aren't limp/reraising then folding a hand like JJ. I'd be much more worried about a 5-bet shove with it, causing me to erroneously lay down.
  • Arenzano Posts: 1,386Subscriber
    Bad player, POW, calling station are the reasons to 4!

    More importantly what does your bet on the river accomplish? What worse hands call you?
  • ClockClock Posts: 1,092Subscriber
    Arenzano said:
    Bad player, POW, calling station are the reasons to 4!

    More importantly what does your bet on the river accomplish? What worse hands call you?
    He a bad player, but not an idiot.
    I think it's one thing where bad players call raises and sometimes 3bets with all kinds of garbage suited hands to see flops, but we're talking about a 4bet here...

    I'm not sure he would call my 4bet with anything.
    If he decides I have AK and he decides to go with his mid PP he would prob shove (plus don't forget we're talking about limp-re-raise from UTG)
    Basically I was looking at it as WAWB type of situation where AA is a huge part of his range.
    At least that was my thinking...

    On the river, I agree he will always check behind, that's why I bet.
    Arenzano said:

    More importantly what does your bet on the river accomplish? What worse hands call you?
    300 into 930 I think a player like that can convince himself to call with a PP because it's such a small bet and he "had to call".

  • Floyd Posts: 160Subscriber
    Being so deep I don't think even a really bad player is going to ship or 5 bet QQ or JJ. He sounds like he would see a flop with even 8+. A 4 bet to 270ish pre for value seems like a must.
    I think AK definately has to be in his flop betting range. The turn beat is very weak so definately leaning more towards 8's 9's T's J's.
    I like the river bet because after you call him on the turn he has to be worried you have an Ace and he will check back a lot.
    There is a good chance you'll get value from those pocket pairs. He sounds like he would talk himself into a call because he is that bad. worth a thin value bet against tgis guy
  • Arenzano Posts: 1,386Subscriber
    edited June 2015
    Clock
    I'm not sure I buy your argument. He limp rereaised you, he is not folding to a raise that clicks it back. You said he was a calling station.

    If this is a WAWB situation, what if anything changes on the flop, turn, or river? To me your WAWB throughout the hand. Is it really possible for him to limp r/r with 88-TT and sometimes JJ? Most players just aren't doing this. It is typically AA, KK, AK and sometimes QQ. More sophisticated players will add in other holdings, or will just open raise generally, unless there are other dynamics.

    He bet the flop because it was favorable, he stabbed at the turn. because the A hit. You've called pre, on the flop, and now on the turn. That is pretty strong. Your hand looks like KK+ or AK. Do you really think that when you all of a sudden wake up and donk into him on the river he will call with mid PP or JJ for $300? That 300 is small relative to the pot, but it is still a sizable wager. I just don't think he calls with anything unless he has you smashed.
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