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2/5 - Limped pot, aces up in the BB

flyingtriangleflyingtriangle Posts: 101Subscriber
edited June 2015 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Local underground game. Small player pool, so everyone knows everyone pretty well.

V1 - White guy, early 60's. Non-thinking level 1 player. Normally loose passive, but prone to random button clicking. $155 stack.

V2 - Asian guy, early 40's. Good player. Sometimes too loose preflop, but solid postflop. Decent hand reader, will call down with marginal holdings if he thinks he’s ahead. Betting/raising for thin value is not a big part of his game, so his large bets tend to be fairly polarized to a big hand or a bluff. V2 covers everyone.

Hero - White guy, early 30's. TAG, solid winning image. Lots of history with both villains. V2 knows hero tends to fastplay all value hands and that hero is capable of making big folds when facing aggression. $400 stack.

On to the hand:
V1 limps UTG, couple more limps from MP, V2 limps from the CO, BTN folds, SB completes and Hero checks his option in the BB with A 5.

Flop ($25): A 7 5
SB checks, Hero leads out for $20, V1 calls, MP limpers fold, V2 raises to $70, SB folds, Hero flats, V1 shoves for $130 total, and now V2 goes all in over the top. It’s $325 more for Hero to call. Hero ???

My thoughts:
I chose not to 3bet over V2's raise for a few reasons. One, I thought it would be a bit of an overplay, as V2 is probably going to fold out everything but 2 pair+ against such a strong line but may put in another bet with top pair on a later street. Two, I noticed V1's stack size was just big enough to re-open the raising, so if V1 shoved and V2 called I could re-raise and possibly get a call from a pot-committed V2.

Regrettably I hadn’t really made a plan for what to do when V2 came back over the top of V1. I was having a really hard time putting him on a range that limps preflop, raises the flop and then 4bets all-in into a dry side pot. At this point we’ve got to call $325 to win $680, so we’re getting a little over 2:1.

Thoughts?

Comments

  • mythomaniac Posts: 284Subscriber
    Does V2 raise medium pocket pairs in position regardless of how many are in the pot? If he does, I'm less concerned about 77. He could have 7-5, which you beat, or AJ-AQ that he decided to over call. He might be interpreting your call from his raise as marginal or a draw like 6-4.

    There's only one combo of A7s left. 3 combos of 77 only one combo of 55 ahead of you. It's pretty close but the decision lies with if you think he would play for stacks with TP GK.

    You may very well be ahead of V1 spazzing with AK.

    I think it was Tri Nguyen (Let There Be Range) who said "if it's close, fold." You are up against two people here. I think there are going to be much more +EV spots to stick it in than this one.
  • flyingtriangleflyingtriangle Posts: 101Subscriber
    No, V2 is not necessarily raising 55 or 77 in this spot. I also think he limps in with A7o some of the time.
  • beauregard Posts: 1,592Subscriber
    If V1 is the kind of drooler I seem to think you're saying he is - V2 may be trying to isolate with a hand that he's dominating V1... so I don't think we've got to have a nutted hand here to call.
    I could see V2 doing this with A9, AT and AJ thinking that V1's got 86, 87, or some baby Ace. (we would expect V2 to raise with AQ & AK pre-flop, right?) After all, V2 seems to have a winning image and may be exploiting that to run over the table. Besides, I would expect V2 to open the pot in the CO with most A7s.

    Hands that smoke us:
    55, 77, A7
    Hands we crush (for now):
    57, A2, A3, A4, A6, A8, A9, AT, AJ
    and of course... hands we tie: A5

    I don't think V2 is bluffing - but in this case I don't necessarily put him on 2-pair+
    unless you have some amazing soul read on V2 - I don't see how you can fold.
  • High__Rolla Posts: 765Subscriber
    You only need 14% equity to call the $60 more for the main pot, which should be no problem. However, you need at least 50% equity versus V2 to call the $265 more for the side pot. Against a range of two pair plus below, you only have 42% equity:

    Ac5s 42.05%
    55, 77, A7, A5, 75 57.95%

    But, if we merely add AQ to his range, then your equity goes over 50%. So, you have played with V2 a lot, can he make this play with less than two pair? If so, call. As others have noted your line will look weak to V2, so that argues for a wider range for him.
  • tensor0910 Posts: 123Subscriber
    havent read the comments:

    V2 is our main problem. Since the players are all familiar w/ ea other I think V2 is iso-raising V1 w/ weak holdings. Cant see him throwing away 2 chances to flat w/ a set and get more people involved on a bone-dry board. I also cant see him playing A7 so aggro when its possible you could have a set as well. I could definitely see the double gutter (43) or 68 in V2's range. Call
  • ClockClock Posts: 1,097Subscriber
    edited July 2015
    If V2 is a good player you should definitely fold (especially if he not raising small PP like 55 or 77 like 90% of the time from LP)

    His most likely holding is set of 7s or A7
    If he's good he's literally NEVER bluffing here.
    I don't see how he can have a big Ace - he would undoubtedly raise pre, plus it would be a bit of an overplay.

    You're just beat here...

    BTW: Not worried about V1 at all, you prob have him killed...
    by 1Floyd
  • Floyd Posts: 160Subscriber
    I agree with Clock. With the way this action has unfolded. And V2 being a good player with hero still to act he is never bluffing here. He has a set 55, 77 or A7. Simple as that
  • chequearoundcc Posts: 122Subscriber
    Floyd said:
    I agree with Clock. With the way this action has unfolded. And V2 being a good player with hero still to act he is never bluffing here. He has a set 55, 77 or A7. Simple as that
    But why is he ISO raising?

    Does anyone think we can rule out some really strong hands due to the ISO raise?
  • beauregard Posts: 1,592Subscriber
    edited July 2015
    chequearoundcc said:

    But why is he ISO raising?

    Does anyone think we can rule out some really strong hands due to the ISO raise?
    me!

    thats what made think that maybe we are good.
    i mean, why shove on such a dry board if you've got a set?
    makes no sense to me.
    shoving should fold out most single pair hands.
    wouldn't you want to get value from those?
  • ClockClock Posts: 1,097Subscriber
    edited July 2015
    chequearoundcc said:


    But why is he ISO raising?

    Does anyone think we can rule out some really strong hands due to the ISO raise?
    I don't think so.
    HERO showed a lot of strength by lead-calling a raise in multi-way situation.
    So from V2 vantage, at minimum HERO should be open ended, in which case obv V2 should shove.
    ...or HERO actually has a strong hand
    Who knows?... maybe "we got lucky" and HERO flopped 2p... better to shove now and get full value before scary cards come out.
  • flyingtriangleflyingtriangle Posts: 101Subscriber
    Thanks everyone for the responses.

    Result: I tanked for a long time and finally folded. My thinking in game was pretty much the same was what Clock has posted ITT. I decided most of the time V2 was going to show up with A7 or a set, and getting less than 3:1 I decided to lay it down.

    As it turned out beauregard hit the nail on the head - V2 was trying to iso V1. After I mucked V1 proudly turned over AKo. V2 says to me "I just wanted to get you out of the hand" and turns over A4s. A 4 comes on the turn and V2 scoops.
  • ClockClock Posts: 1,097Subscriber
    Strange play from "good player" with A4.
    I can't imagine what he thought he was ahead of (in terms of V1 range, nevermind hero's range)

    I wouldn't worry about it. I think you played it correctly.
    I would prob also chalk up V1 as somebody who's a little over aggro and overplays TP a bit...
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