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How do you play this hand?

Floyd Posts: 160Subscriber
V in this hand was a recreational player early 30's who was limp calling all kinds of hands and was just playing really bad in general. I have been at the table for on hour and have been winning and haven't gone to show down yet.

$285 effective stack with V
2/4 9 handed

1 limp in early position. Hero iso raises from MP to $20 with Q J
2 players call behind and the V calls in the CO and limper comes along. 5 players to the flop.

Flop Q 4 3 (106)
Check to hero who bets $65, V calls all others fold

Turn J (236)
Hero??
V has $200 left

Comments

  • dpbuckdpbuck Posts: 1,989SubscriberProfessional
    Bet $100 and fold to a raise. There are still a lot of hands you can get value from - Qx, A Xx. Bad players can really have anything here. If villain calls, I'm jamming any non-diamond river.
  • Floyd Posts: 160Subscriber
    Can you really bet fold here. $236 in the pot. Hero bets $100 and V shoves. Pot is now $536 and $100 to call.
  • DrGambol Posts: 724Subscriber
    Shove
    dpbuck said:
    Bet $100 and fold to a raise. There are still a lot of hands you can get value from - Qx, A Xx. Bad players can really have anything here. If villain calls, I'm jamming any non-diamond river.
    Oh god no. When Bart says take a bet/fold approach to NL, he's not talking about b/f $100 into a $200 pot with $100 behind against a losing player. He's talking about b/f $100 into $200 when $800 deep against passive players that are afraid of big bets.

    Just think about how a losing rec player thinks about this spot when they have KQ on this board or TdTh. They see you bet $100 and they only have $100 left after they call and the pot looks big. They'll just shrug and say F*** it, let's gamble and jam it in. The chances they just spazz jam random stuff happens way more often than running into a guy that only bets the nuts, yet has given us the reads that he limps calls a lot and is bad in general.
  • Floyd Posts: 160Subscriber
    So are we thinking this is a check fold to a 1/2 pot size bet or more or a bet bet call because he may get it in with worse?
  • dpbuckdpbuck Posts: 1,989SubscriberProfessional
    edited July 2015
    Is he ever shoving anything less than a flush? I don't think so. Yes, I get the odds are spectacular, but how often are we good?

    So what's your line, @DrGambol? I respect your opinions a lot - definitely want to hear your line...
  • ClockClock Posts: 1,097Subscriber
    100% bet.
    The question is is the the kind of player that will go nuts with TP and FD like A Q K Q or will he just call.

    That's pretty much the only hands we're beating that he can spazz out with and a lot of bad players will just call because they always put you on FD when u bet, so flush now came in.

    I think vs most bad players I agree with dpbuck - bet/fold $100 is good!
  • DrGambol Posts: 724Subscriber
    dpbuck said:
    Is he ever shoving anything less than a flush? I don't think so. Yes, I get the odds are spectacular, but how often are we good?

    So what's your line, @DrGambol? I respect your opinions a lot - definitely want to hear your line...
    Yes he is. He's probably jamming stuff like I mentioned, Qx, mid pairs with flush draw. Like I said, people just say screw it, I'm going with it and jamming. It's not that uncommon among fish to just shove at that point.

    My line would be to jam. We have under a pot sized bet left. I don't want to bet half pot and risk another diamond hitting and either beating me or killing my action.
  • Floyd Posts: 160Subscriber
    Bet folding against a bad player seems like you are going to fold out the best hand a lot of the time? When they think TP is good or spazz out with flush draw? The more I think about it, you're much better bet folding to a good player than a bad one?
  • dpbuckdpbuck Posts: 1,989SubscriberProfessional
    Clearly a different hand against a good player vs. bad. Bad players tend to call way too much when they should be raising or folding.

    I worry a jam gives villain an opportunity to fold Qx or Jx. I don't hate a jam, and it is better than checking, but if we're trying to maximize against those hands then we need to bet smaller.

    I disagree that villain is going to shove a hand like Q9 here. We have no description other than "really bad", but again at this level, bad players just call these type hands rather than shove.
  • Floyd Posts: 160Subscriber
    The problem I'm finding with this hand is just stack sizes with bet folding. Unless we can be positive he just calls with his hands we beat and shoves his flushes. I can't bet and then fold. If he shoves worse hands than TTP is it likely he calls a shove with all those hands anyway?
  • DrGambol Posts: 724Subscriber
    dpbuck said:
    Clearly a different hand against a good player vs. bad. Bad players tend to call way too much when they should be raising or folding.

    I worry a jam gives villain an opportunity to fold Qx or Jx. I don't hate a jam, and it is better than checking, but if we're trying to maximize against those hands then we need to bet smaller.

    I disagree that villain is going to shove a hand like Q9 here. We have no description other than "really bad", but again at this level, bad players just call these type hands rather than shove.
    why do you think bad players fold top pair or only flat with it? Bad players overvalue top pair. I see stuff like this all the time. They make bad players. They call jams. They jam in terrible spots
  • Floyd Posts: 160Subscriber
    The way the hand played out. I bet $105 on turn V shoves I call. He has top set and I'm drawing dead.
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