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River raise against an unknown player

Floyd Posts: 160Subscriber
2/4 $400 effective with Villan.

V is a new player and is his first hand. I have no infornatiin on him as we have never played together

Hero opens 20 MP1 ATo, V calls in the BB
A 9 8 (40)
V checks, hero bets 30, V calls
Turn 8 (100)
hero bets 60, V calls
River J (220)
V checks, hero bets 75, V raises to 150
hero?

Comments

  • MrFizzbinMrFizzbin Posts: 356Subscriber
    Let see check bet call, check bet call check bet check raise.

    Unless this guy is an idiot trying to pull an insanely bad bluff you have been beat the whole way.

    Against a new opponent just check call get the free info on his playing style. Hand in worse position shows first on 5th when it goes check check. Most cards rooms outside of LA and Vegas know that.
    by 1Floyd
  • DrGambol Posts: 724Subscriber
    You should have some info on him by looking at him/her.

    I don't really like betting river. We chop with worse Ax, & we rarely fold out the worse Ax on this runout. Are we really trying to get value from 9x/QQ against a readless villain?

    As a default, I'm assuming he's not min raise bluffing. Pretty much nobody does that. This will almost always be a straight/AJ or similar hand.

    Also, planning out the hand, I don't see many runouts where I feel great trying to go for 3 streets of value against an unknown. 2 barreling is fine with the draws out there. We could also check back the flop or the turn with the plan to call down safe runouts to get value from bluffs. I really like the line of bet flop/check turn because draws are kinda forced to bet the river or lose with no showdown value. And this also prevents us from getting into sticky spots readless when they x/r turn and we have to decide if they're semi bluffing or have it. And if he checks to us on the river, then we can confidently value bet on most runouts (because a flush would bet out into us, better Ax would bet, etc)

    by 1Floyd
  • Floyd Posts: 160Subscriber
    I see what your saying with the checking turn to get draws to bluff river but I can't bring myself to give infinite odds. That's what I was thinking on the river. How is this ever a bluff? T7 doesn't make a lot of sense calling pre and QT is a gutshot. Diamonds missed. If he had T7 or maybe QT of diamonds is possible.
    Is AJ even going for thin value here?
    Let alone AQ or AK. AK would re raise pre a bit aswell.
    He was a Kiwi. That is the only info I had
  • AJD804AJD804 Posts: 184Subscriber
    I cant possibly think of a hand that you beat here, so I think its an easy fold. I also was not a fan of the river bet, because to be honest I dont think you can get a call from a hand you beat. At best you will get called and chop so betting is futile here.
    by 1Floyd
  • beauregard Posts: 1,592Subscriber
    AJD804 said:
    I cant possibly think of a hand that you beat here...
    my thoughts exactly...
    we lose to AK, AQ, AJ A9, A8.... do we ever think BB is calling with a worse Ace or betting with AT? Really?

    if you believe in the gap theory/concept which says that players typically call with better/nuttier hands esp. oop (of course it depends on player types) then I don't see how AT is worth a river bet.

    it's wa/wb - worse hands fold, so you get no action and better hands call or raise.

    by 1Floyd
  • Floyd Posts: 160Subscriber
    I was being very optimistic thinking a J or 9 might call. It is a bad bet. I should check behind everyday and once raised it is a clear fold. I made a crying call. This hand really really looks like AJ a lot. One of those brain freeze moments.
    I call and he shows AK
    So he raised super thin. I don't see that many players raise there with that

    An interesting thought came into my head after and I never thought it at the time.
    If you know a player is capable of raising that thinly what does everyone think about a 3 bet here? 3 betting here will probably get AJ to fold I mean AJ is now beating just bluffs.
    If Villan can raise that thinky seems like a grwat spot to turn this hand into a bluff and represent a fullhouse and quads. A8 98 and 9's are all very likely holdings if we 3 bet here
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