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1/2 in my 30th hour of live play

Hey guys, super new. Gonna post so many bad hands and learn from them ! Im in my 30's , played mtt's back in the day online with some success. Just moved to Chicago so I can play at Horseshoe Hammond pretty easy .

Onto the hand.. Is this standard, a horrid play ? Im so lost right now on cash tables I hate it, why I joined the site as I hate to be the sucker at the table.

1/2 blinds
utg - folds
utg+1 limps
hero - AJ diamonds, raise to 15 ( tried 20 a few times and got no callers as my any raise range. open or iso is what I mean
bb- call
Utg+1 call- POT ( $46 )

Flop:QT9 raindow , 1 diamond

BB open ships for $52.
UTg+1 fold
Hero: ?

Again may be super easy for everyone but I'm so confused on all these type situations. Thanks for your help.



  • workinghard Posts: 1,573Subscriber
    This bet means "im scared you will out draw me." he's denying you the needed odds to call. You have about a 1 in 5 c hance of winning (assuming villain doesn't have a J too for a chop). You pot odds to call are 52:98 or 1:2 about. There is slim chance you have the better hand now. This is a fold
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    @Oban14 Welcome!!!

    We have all been where you are.. You taking the first step to actually posting a hand is way ahead of like 90% of folks out there. No one likes to think they may say something stupid. and thats stupid. Its the best way to learn. You say something you get a response and then it just clicks.

    I have said this before but poker hand reading is like translating a language. The player IS trying to tell you what they have. Players who are recreational have a dialect.. Maniacs have dialects.. as you become a better player you will have a different dialect..

    So what does this all mean???

    You have to go back to preflop and say to yourself "what is the limp calling range of this player?"

    Then say to yourself " is he a rec player or a better player, is he mainly weak tight or loose passive?" All of these matter in narrowing that range down

    When the player leads then ask yourself "Whats villain sizing is it small (like on a draw if he has alot of chips) or is it big (with a small stack also a draw)

    then "Whats my equity?"

    If you feel you need more work on hand reading then go back to some of those podcasts that bart did a few years ago. You can find them in the curriculum. Hand reading is not easy. If it was everyone would be able to do it. You just have to put in more work than the rec players who are :

    - incapable of ever understanding higher level concepts
    - dont care about ever putting in the extra work
    -dont understand that there is higher levels

    so go back to your hand and put in what you think the answers to these questions are and let us know what you think?


  • Chicago Iron Posts: 68Subscriber
    Welcome to the forums and Chicago. Also Wendy I like your analogy.
  • pokertime Posts: 2,194Subscriber
    +1 for Wendy. This is just find a better spot. There is a chance your A wont even be good if it pairs so you only have a straight draw. I still question these sometimes but once I really think about it it's and do the math it's obvious. It's just that in the moment folding sucks but u have to do it.
  • Oban14 Posts: 20Subscriber
    Hey guys thanks for the comments and Wendy that was great, yeah i thought about not posting the hand because on some forums I got roasted..but then said fuck it and will keep doing so
  • Oban14 Posts: 20Subscriber
    Also I think thinking is part of the problem , if I go through a hand I sit and think about it I always recognize my horrid play . Live I am struggling to transition actually thinking during a hand
  • tomorrow33tomorrow33 Posts: 485Subscriber
    Welcome! A tip for future hands you post is to also include stack sizes and perhaps (if possible) some context of the Villian in the hand ie. I saw him shove with middle pair and gut shot or you've only seen him getting it in with the nuts etc.

    Also you said that you tried raising to $20 but got no callers so you went back to $15 so it's already clear your thinking about aspects of your game so your heading in the right direction.

    Also is your game a flat drop or rake? Either way it's so hard to beat those games and once you get comfortable with the live poker you should try and move up in stakes as soon as you can (bank roll permitting). Short stack cap games can lead to so many situations where it's "shove or fold" poker which can make it difficult to work on some flop/post flop play.
  • Oban14 Posts: 20Subscriber
    Yeah Im gonna move up to 2/5 as soon as I'm comfortble with game flow and live poker. Also I don't wanna make another thread but a hand from last night.

    $400 stack size 1/2

    3 limpers and I rasie to 20 withAQ spades

    2 callers a utg +1 limp and the small blind
    flop J T 3 2 spades

    check , check , i bet 15( i know its bad now ) 2 callers,

    turn 5 spades, sb leads for $125 and Utg +1 calls .. should I just ship here?

    spoiler below

    river is a 5. sb leads for $100 .. I have to call right ?

  • tomorrow33tomorrow33 Posts: 485Subscriber
    How much does each V have behind on the flop and on the turn when they bet/call the $125?

    I think it's a jam on the turn. It's about a pot size raise and there's plenty of smaller flushes and 2 pairs etc that aren't going to be able to fold at that level. With the small flop bet and over jam turn a lot of players are going to read your hand as Aces with the A of spades or KK with the K of spades and will call it off potentially drawing dead. It also means that when the board pairs your aren't playing the guessing game.

    On the flop you probably want to bet $35-40ish so you can look at getting stacks in if you hit your card. For example let's say you only bet the $15 and you hit your card but the sb doesn't lead into you. Now on the turn you can only really bet $85-$90 as pot is $120 and then on river your still leaving money on the table of the the river is a brick.

    Let's say you bet $40 on the flop however and get say 2 callers. Pot is now $180 so turn bet can be $120-$150 and now on the river you can get it in with a bit under pot sized bet left and villains can talk themselves into calling with 2 pairs and sets etc cause "there's so much money out there" and they get pot stuck.

    Having said that the way you played it you kind of disguised your hand and got the opportunity to put it all in with the nuts so IMO that should be your okay next time.
  • TerpHimselfTerpHimself Posts: 324Subscriber
    What's up Oban! Welcome to the forums, and I hope you find the feedback helpful. Also, you've picked a great place to put some live hours, as the Shoe has very standard 1-2 play and enough 2/5 action that when you move up, you'll still encounter plenty of bad players.

    For your second hand, Bart has a concept called the Aggressive Action Theorem that is geared towards pre-flop and flop raising, and I think it also applies here. Let's break down the hand from the flop on:

    Flop: You flop the nut flush draw (9 outs) a gutter ball to the nut straight (3 outs) and very easily your A or Q could be good in this spot (6 outs). Remember, the two calls you got were a cold-call from the SB, and an UTG limper, so you can remove lots of strong hands (JJ, QQ, KK, AA, some AK's) from their range. 1-2 players hate bad beats, so they'll re-raise their big hands pre-flop, and they'll happily tag along with KJ, 77, and 98suited.

    You admit the $15 bet was bad, and I hope it's b/c you recognize that you only bet around 25% of the pot. You flop a huge draw here, so much so that you're actually ahead or flipping against hands that already have a pair. You want to build a pot in this situation when both players check to you.

    Now on the turn you make the nuts, and the SB leads out huge (in live poker) for $125. And the other player calls. I know you have a large amount ($365) left, but here's the thing about live low-limit players. If that guy is blasting off into a 3-spade board for that amount, he has a flush 95% of the time. And he is NEVER folding. The guy behind him might have some kinds of weird combo draw and is playing it bad, but if he calls too, it's just gravy. Ship the $$$ in and enjoy the profits.

    River: Board pairs, and I assume the UTG player folded after the $100 bet. So this guy went from betting full pot on the turn to 1/3 on the river. TYPICALLY, when you see that type of bet size change at the 1-2 level, it's a player trying to name his price b/c he no longer has what he perceives to be the best hand. In this spot, you can still raise, and probably will get a crying call from a 9-high flush or something, since players would almost prefer to show the "bad beat" than make a prudent laydown. If for some bizarre reason he decided to blast off into a flush board with a set of 3's and then bet very small on the river after he filled up, then that's just unlucky. Most of the player pool is going to play it the exact opposite.

    GL and feel free to post anytime.
    by 1SnOwHIO
  • SnOwHIO Posts: 114Subscriber
    What TerpHimself said. I think raising the river is in order. Villain most likely isn't potting the turn with a set or 2 pair when the flush comes in on the turn and then weak leading the river. I'd prefer a shove on the turn, but as played, it's a river jam.

    Take your time at 1/2. Get comfortable even if it means breaking even. You are back at it with only 30 hours of play. Hopping into a 2/5 game too soon and experiencing some of the downside of variance can really mess with your confidence, so I think you should be confident in your play and at least able to analyze hands without being results oriented to be honest with your play.

    Best of luck to you!
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