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2/5HH river

2/5nl

about 500 effective hero covers

villain is a rec player playing about 50% of hands passively and losing.

mp(fish) limp for 5 , bad lag raises to 30 , villain 3bets to 60 in the co, hero otb (AdKd) calls 60 thoughts ? and all the other players call.

flop(240) Qs Ks 3h checks to villain who bets 50 hero raises to 100 thoughts ? folds to villain who calls

turn(440) 5h villain bets 125 hero calls thoughts?

river(690) Jd villain shoves for 200 hero?

Comments

  • pokertime Posts: 2,194Subscriber
    Your saying Villian is playing passive and I wouldn't consider a 3! passive. Is he actually 3! A lot and giving up on the flop? Playing 50% of hands but 3! 2% if the time means the 3! Is a strong move and he's not playing this one passive.

    I think you should at least 4! PF. Just calling and hoping to hit the flop is iffy though not totally bad depending on what your actually ranging him on. 50% of hands is basically ATC so you don't want to be guessing. At the same time I think the 3! Is telling. You haven't given much Villian info to go on. What you see him call down with, how much he folds flops and turns etc all make a difference in how you read him. Calls raise then leads a lot/never?

    Flop is fine. You got 2 extra callers PF to fold flop and now your heads up so I would say that part of the plan is good. At the same time your not real happy the PF 3! is the one sticking around.

    Turn I just make a decision if I'm getting it in or not and fold or shove. I think there is a good chance he has JJ+ here and you could get JJ to fold on the turn (though you would want it to call at the time I'm just running this into river comment). The river just sucks for you as everything you would expect a PF 3!/4! Caller to have gets there. Unless he's just on some crazy bluff (which does happen) your probably no good OTR. Straights, sets and 2 pair are all over this action and board unless your leaving some important info out. As played its puke call or puke fold. So hard to fold but how are you good! You need to be good 15-20% of the time to call and is he really bluffing or overplaying worse that much? Maybe. All the more reason I would have shoved or folded turn because I wouldnt want to have to make a river decision like this.
  • hectorjelly Posts: 47Subscriber
    Forgetting about preflop and your flop play, once you raise a flop that wet and your opponent flat calls I would cap his range at one pair (the only one pair that beats you is aces). Low stakes guys will rarely slowplay sets on boards like that. Given that I'd just shove over his turn bet given the size of the pot if you call. As played I'd call the river, the pot is too big to fold top top.
  • tomorrow33tomorrow33 Posts: 485Subscriber
    hectorjelly said:
    Forgetting about preflop and your flop play, once you raise a flop that wet and your opponent flat calls I would cap his range at one pair (the only one pair that beats you is aces). Low stakes guys will rarely slowplay sets on boards like that. Given that I'd just shove over his turn bet given the size of the pot if you call. As played I'd call the river, the pot is too big to fold top top.
    What kind of one pair hands on the flop does V have that would 3 bet pre that doesn't hit 2 pair on the river. Is a bad passive player really 3 betting Kx or Qx pre and now just jamming river? I think he just calls down with those hands based on the description of the V. I guess there as the chance that V whiffed on the NFD and is now jamming river but I think so often he turns over 2 pair or a set or even AT for the straight.

    Yeah the pot is big and we're getting a decent price but I don't think V shoves a worse pair than Hero's so it's either 2 pair + or complete air ball and I think it's the former so much more often.

  • yocamyo Posts: 63Subscriber
    I think you could have considered a small 4 bet to induce a shove from the weakest hands villain is 3 betting. Something like 125-150. Hopefully this puts the villain in a tough spot and he shoves wider than he would if you put a bigger 4 bet in. Also, if there is any way he folds 1010 or JJ it's a pretty big win for you. Furthermore, with a LAG player yet to act as the original raiser, you could possibly find a fold if the action goes 5 bet shove and call from fish.

    With about 2 pot sized bets left in the effective stacks, I think it's a mistake to raise flop and not get it in on turn. At that point you have to ask yourself if your raise on the flop served any point if you're not getting it in vs a weak donk lead on a dry turn. SPR is way too close to 1 for me to be folding, especially considering you block the majority of hands he would slow play on the flop.

    As played, I think you have to fold the river. I think you'd have to assume that the villain is trying to get you to fold you're exact hand in order to find a call here. Based on the description of the villain, I seriously doubt he's capable of that. Note that the price you are getting is absurd and that is why I prefer shoving turn. Give the fish the great price and he cannot resist. His range will be wider to call off than it will be to shove.
  • Dab44 Posts: 411Subscriber
    I think flatting the 3 bet pre is OK given stack sizes. 4 bet is good too. OTF I would raise more maybe 150...and when he leads turn, I think it's just best to ship it. I doubt he is check/calling flop leading turn with a set or two pair. Yea just get the money is as quick as u can.
  • johnamenjohnamen Posts: 55Subscriber
    Very very ugly river indeed. What do you think about raising the flop ... His $50 bet into $200 seems a little weak. You have a great flop for your AK, raise flop $185 or so then jam turn? In reality he could have AK just like you. As played mybe I do find a fold on river.... It sucks to fold but he made a good bet regardless :p
  • StarwarsJediMasterStarwarsJediMaster Posts: 741Subscriber
    yocamyo said:
    I think you could have considered a small 4 bet to induce a shove from the weakest hands villain is 3 betting. Something like 125-150. Hopefully this puts the villain in a tough spot and he shoves wider than he would if you put a bigger 4 bet in. Also, if there is any way he folds 1010 or JJ it's a pretty big win for you. Furthermore, with a LAG player yet to act as the original raiser, you could possibly find a fold if the action goes 5 bet shove and call from fish.

    With about 2 pot sized bets left in the effective stacks, I think it's a mistake to raise flop and not get it in on turn. At that point you have to ask yourself if your raise on the flop served any point if you're not getting it in vs a weak donk lead on a dry turn. SPR is way too close to 1 for me to be folding, especially considering you block the majority of hands he would slow play on the flop.

    As played, I think you have to fold the river. I think you'd have to assume that the villain is trying to get you to fold you're exact hand in order to find a call here. Based on the description of the villain, I seriously doubt he's capable of that. Note that the price you are getting is absurd and that is why I prefer shoving turn. Give the fish the great price and he cannot resist. His range will be wider to call off than it will be to shove.
    I totally agree with your decision on the turn with a low spr and the double fd out there, I think there is plenty of value I shoving with stacks. My thoughts on the turn is why is this dude betting into me after I have shown strength , just seemed really strong imo, but I play scared(bad) probably 20% of the time, something iam working on.
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