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2-5 Line Check- I Ship 2x Pot on the River

High__Rolla Posts: 798Subscriber
edited August 2015 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Hero ($670) - an unknown at this casino. Been at table less than an hour and up from $500 BI mostly by getting max thin value from second pair on one hand. Otherwise nothing significant.

V ($2000) - seems competent. He is wearing sunglasses and talking about poker tournaments. This V just lost a big hand where he opened KQ to 50 got a 4way flop of Qh7h5. H c/c a145 bet by the button and small stack ship for117. V led the Turn Ac for 200 and the button called. River blank 2 check check and he loses to AhJh.

Preflop: MP posts 5, Hero raises to 25 OTB JhTh. V calls in BB. MP folds.

Flop (55) Td Tc 4d. V checks. Hero cbets 30.

Turn (115) Td Tc 4d Qc V checks. Hero bets 80. v calls.

River (275) Td Tc 4d Qc Qh. V checks fairly quickly. Hero ships 535.

My thinking: V rarely quickly checks the river with a Q. I might bluff a chop or get Hero-called.

Comments

  • SKOOSKOO Posts: 160Subscriber
    I like betting a little more on the flop to begin with since the main V is deep. Then your stack will be a little less by the time the river comes.

    You could go with either line vs a thinking player on the river. He could get curious but i doubt it.
  • High__Rolla Posts: 798Subscriber
    SKOO said:
    I like betting a little more on the flop to begin with since the main V is deep. Then your stack will be a little less by the time the river comes.

    You could go with either line vs a thinking player on the river. He could get curious but i doubt it.
    there is only one V in this hand. The other hand was a previous hand the V just played that might have tilted him.

    What is "either line" you are referring to?
  • SKOOSKOO Posts: 160Subscriber
    edited August 2015
    What I meant was not shoving river and throwing a value bet out there.

    sorry for the confusion
  • High__Rolla Posts: 798Subscriber
    SKOO said:
    What I meant was not shoving river and throwing a value bet out there.
    Gotcha. My concern with value betting is what worse hands would I get value from? Maybe an Ax that missed the flush? Lower PPs got counterfeited. Of course, maybe this is an argument not to shove?
  • SKOOSKOO Posts: 160Subscriber
    Yah, I didn't like the shove. It's just so hard to get value from anything worse. So I would throw out a bet you think would get called by this player type.
  • pokertime Posts: 2,194Subscriber
    If Villain is competent I'm not sure how he is calling with worse or folding a T. It's hard for you to have a Q here unless he's seen you just triple barrel AK etc and run into the turn or river making the best hand. I think you played if fine until river. Just check back or bet $150-200. He doesn't have AA or KK so is he calling with JJ? I'm not sure about that. That's the best worst hand I could see even thinking about calling. IDK maybe that's enough pressure to get a T to fold but it looks a little bluffy also. If you actaully thought worse isn't calling so their is no value bet and you need to get a T to fold then the play is fine. I'm not sure he even plays a T like that. The turn would probably see a raise when flush and straight draws show up.
  • High__Rolla Posts: 798Subscriber
    edited August 2015
    pokertime said:
    It's hard for you to have a Q here unless he's seen you just triple barrel AK etc and run into the turn or river making the best hand.
    I thought I could have a lot more Q in my perceived range than him. I raised the button preflop and cbet a good board texture which I would do with most of my range including AQ, KQ, QJ, QT. I then caught running queens. However, your point is well taken about whether he gets to the river with Tx...
    pokertime said:
    I think you played if fine until river. Just check back or bet $150-200. He doesn't have AA or KK so is he calling with JJ? I'm not sure about that. That's the best worst hand I could see even thinking about calling. IDK maybe that's enough pressure to get a T to fold but it looks a little bluffy also. If you actaully thought worse isn't calling so their is no value bet and you need to get a T to fold then the play is fine. I'm not sure he even plays a T like that. The turn would probably see a raise when flush and straight draws show up.
    I think its very rare for him to get to the river with JJ. If so, the only worse hand that might call a bet is Ax such as busted FD. Is he more likely to call a $200 bet versus a $535 with Ax? Probably, but how much more often? Maybe a tiny bet OTR is better? Or, if he is never folding a Q or T, maybe this is a check back?

  • pokertime Posts: 2,194Subscriber
    High__Rolla said:
    pokertime said:
    It's hard for you to have a Q here unless he's seen you just triple barrel AK etc and run into the turn or river making the best hand.
    I thought I could have a lot more Q in my perceived range than him. I raised the button preflop and cbet a good board texture which I would do with most of my range including AQ, KQ, QJ, QT. I then caught running queens. However, your point is well taken about whether he gets to the river with Tx...
    pokertime said:
    I think you played if fine until river. Just check back or bet $150-200. He doesn't have AA or KK so is he calling with JJ? I'm not sure about that. That's the best worst hand I could see even thinking about calling. IDK maybe that's enough pressure to get a T to fold but it looks a little bluffy also. If you actaully thought worse isn't calling so their is no value bet and you need to get a T to fold then the play is fine. I'm not sure he even plays a T like that. The turn would probably see a raise when flush and straight draws show up.
    I think its very rare for him to get to the river with JJ. If so, the only worse hand that might call a bet is Ax such as busted FD. Is he more likely to call a $200 bet versus a $535 with Ax? Probably, but how much more often? Maybe a tiny bet OTR is better? Or, if he is never folding a Q or T, maybe this is a check back?

    I agree I can't really see JJ and I don't think he's even calling with A high. That's why I kinda feel like your only play is getting a T to fold the chop. He could have worse but he's not calling with it because it's a busted draw or something. Other wise it's a check back. I agree you could have AQ it's just a matter of if he believes that or not. Even good players will call with a T ticked that you could have won with running Q and they have to see it! :cool:
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