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Two hands from last night

WackabrewWackabrew Posts: 400Subscriber
edited November -1 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Played a long session at Parx last night (1/2). At this point in the night, I have a good image: big stack, winning a lot of pots by showing down strong hands. Should be seen by the rest of the table as as thinking player and thin value bettor (got two streets from JJ when I held QQ on an A high board, and the guy who I won the pot from commented about how he didn't think I would ever bet queens in that spot). Hero has ~500BB stack at the time of both of these hands

First (~200BB effective with Villian):

Hero is on the Button with 6h3h. limps around to Hero and Hero overlimps (debatable, I know). Main villian in the hand is fairly unknown. Seems fairly competent, but hasn't played many hands, and generally (not really relevant I guess), seems kind of "off". Villian is in BB.

Flop ($14): 9h4h7c. Villian leads out for $10. Folds to Hero who raises to $30. Villian smooth calls. This is a limped pot and Villian is in the BB, so he could have any two here. I would generally weight his range to 9x. I wanted to start building a pot with my flush draw and gutterball.

Turn ($74): 9s. Villian leads for $65. The fact that he is leading out after my raise on the flop suggests he has a strong hand here, and 9x is much more squarely in his range. Again, any two from the BB, so 97 and 94 are in his range. Hero thinks for a bit and calls. I figured I would call and evaluate what Villian does on the river.

River ($204): 2h. I make my flush, so I am feeling pretty good about things, until....Villian ships for ~$250. Now, If villian is at all competant, he should know that is a good card for me. Hero???

Second Hand:

Hero is on the Button with Js9s. Limps to CO with raises to $6 (pot sweetener type of bet - this is the same villian from above who called down with JJ). I call, and BB "three bets" to $12. I put that in quotes as $12 was standard open size for most of the table and this Villian in particular. UTG calls $12, CO calls, I call. Effective stacks - CO 300BB, BB 100BB, UTG 150BB, I cover all.

Flop ($50): 7c9d10s. Checked to CO who bets $20. I call, others call. I feel with back door spades, pair + gutshot, and with the small sizing, I'm definitely getting the right price. Question - would anyone have raised here?

Turn ($130): 9c. Checked to CO who bets $65. At this point I put the BB and UTG on draws (that I would like to keep in the hand), or pocket pairs. UTG is more weighted to pocket pair given the pre-flop action, and UTG is more weighted to a draw. UTG should be doing this with a top pair type of hand (A10s/K10s/Q10s). I call, BB calls (leaving himself ~$100), and now UTG ships it. CO disgustedly folds, and action is on Hero. Pot is $390 after all of the $65 bets are pulled in, and the all-in is for $165 more. I can see out of the corner of my eye that BB is ready to ship in his last $100 essentially no matter what, so in reality its going to be $165 to win $655.

UTG seems like a decent player, but is new to the table, so no super strong reads. We are getting 4/1, so only need 20% equity. If my nine isn't good, I figure I have 7 outs (4 8s, 3 Js), which right there is 15%. This is a call all day if he has more than just Q9+ in his range (i.e. big clubs), correct? This seems like a great spot to jam given the action to that point with a big draw, and I would think that a boat just calls the $65 knowing that he can get it in on the river. Hero??

Thanks for the feedback


  • whatsyourplay? Posts: 752Member
    Hand 1:

    I am folding the turn, since we have poor odds with villain's bet size, but huge reverse implied odds (we don't know if our flush is good, so we can't shovel money in the pot and be happy about it).

    As played, I am folding the river.

    Hand 2:

    I would strongly consider raising the flop in order to shut out the other guys. If called only by the CO, I am betting most turns and checking some rivers, depending on the board runout.

    As played, I am calling the turn. I don't like it, but folding the best hand in this spot would be such a huge mistake compared to calling that I think we have to call
  • LucasE Posts: 167Member
    Hand 1: I'm fine with the preflop call, even though our hand is very speculative our skill and position advantage should more than compensate. For 1BB we can see a flop and go from there. Without some reads & knowledge of our villain I'm probably going to fold the turn. This isn't a great card for us and when villain leads out again after we've c/r'd the flop any river is going to be a tough spot. That said, I may call if I know villain pretty well and can put him squarely on a 9x type of hand that will pay me off on the river. For example - we can call if we know villain will only bet full houses/flushes on the river and will check/call big bets with 9x hands.

    Hand 2: I'm fine with preflop again here. Does anyone like considering a 3bet? Calling the flop seems good. Raising might be good if we have a good image and are capable of barreling good turn cards. The problem is that this board is so connected and should hit several people's ranges in a multiway pot so we need to have a plan for a variety of turns when one or more people call our raise.

    On the turn, I like raising CO's bet for value. As played, our hand is underrepped. We're not worried about BB at all - all he's doing is giving us better odds. So what can UTG have? He's limp/cold called a min 3-bet preflop. Check/called as last to act (if I'm reading flop action properly) on the flop so his range may be a bit wider than if he were the first person to call the cbet. Now he's check/raised all-in over CO's turn bet and two callers. He shouldn't have big pocket pairs because of the preflop action. he can definitely have 77 and maybe even TT if he's passive preflop. He might have a few 9x hands (79+) but those are unlikely to be in his range because of the preflop action. Could he be spazzing with Ax of clubs? This whole line is really weird, it seems to be great strength but I'm not sure what value hands he can show up with given the entire line. I'm calling because of that reason, but I'm not terribly excited about it.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    Hand 1

    So this is when watching and paying attention when you are not in the hand is really important when assigning a range to a player. This guy leads flop.. I doubt he has anything better than one pair. Players will check raise wet boards to gin their hands so I doubt he had this. Furthermore he leads the turn. He just wont have a full house in this spot as he would want you to bet so he can check raise again.

    The main question is have you seen this player bet his draws before? I have seen plenty of players who bets draws then top pair pairs the board and then they lead repping that .. To me looks like he might have had 9x with no full house, or a flush draw that he was repping the 9 and has now hit. tough but given the line is just almost never a bluff you can only beat a random 9x..

    Hand 2

    I would actually raise preflop against an obvious pot sweetner raise in position. Then against a field bettor this is another spot where you can raise if you like but I am more likely to call this bet..

    On the turn I would imagine that you are behind and possibly to three outs.. I think the all in check raiser is pretty strong here. At least a straight and most likely a set that has filled up on the turn. since he limped 7s is the most likely set but he could also have TT as well though less likely.

    Most of the time when someone has flopped a straight and the board pairs they tend to lead out not check raise so thats why I am leaning towards a full house then the straight. I would just fold.. If villain has TT you are drawing to 1 9.. if he has 77 then you are drawing to 3 Js and 1 9. either way you dont have the right odds to call.

  • bobo1384 Posts: 145Subscriber
    Hand1: sigh fold as played. Should have folded turn I think.

    Hand 2: call. I have a hard time putting utg on a full house because he didn't raise flop. He could have J8s, 68s, 89s,T8cc,ATcc, 8Xcc,9x. Getting almost 4-I , i think folding is criminal.
  • kdogmc Posts: 100Subscriber
    Fold river. He has a flush. Maybe boat but i lean towards a flush.

    2nd is more fun. I think you have to call. Yes you could be screwed but he could have 89 here maybe 86. Big overpair mistake.

    With you having a 9 and his check raise it sure puts you in a spot.
  • TJ Posts: 239Subscriber
    Hand 1: Sigh and fold. You're not beating much. A9, maybe, but it seems really spazzy for him to ship that on the river, unless he thinks he's turning his hand into a bluff. On the other hand, your line could easily be TT-AA, so he might think he's value betting three nines. On balance, I think it's a fold. Give him $5 to show his hand, then wait for a better spot.

    Hand 2: Call for sure. You're getting such a great price, and I don't think the UTG cat is full, since he's most likely raising such a connected flop with two pair+. As for raising the flop, maybe, but it has to be a raise-fold, obv. Further, what's your plan if you get called?
  • WackabrewWackabrew Posts: 400Subscriber
    So it seems as though the general consensus is that I should be folding the first hand and calling off on the second.

    Hand 1: I folded, and villian did not show. I couldn't get it out of him what he had (I tanked for a while, said out loud that I though that he was a good enough player not to play a bare 9 that way - he didn't react to that comment). In a limped pot, I would think he shows up with a full house here a lot, and a higher flush many other times.

    Hand 2: I tank called, figuring that I was getting the right price (and, as WYP said, that there would be a lot of times where I was folding the best hand). BB does not flip is hand and later said that he had a pair (not sure if it was an overpair or not), and UTG flipped over Q9cc, which obviously was an issue as it cut into my straight outs. River bricked obv

    Thanks for the comments all
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