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ATC against super straightforward villain?

ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,083SubscriberProfessional
I dont see villain that often at the 5/5 game at hustler but I played about 4 hours with him on saturday and it got me thinking. I could probably play any two cards against him in position.. Why? first he is an older white gentlemen who was speaking hebrew to another player at my table. So I assume he is Israeli .. I would say he is in his late 60s or early 70s..

He has a very reliable bet sizing tell.. pre and post..

In a limped pot he would raise to 40 with a premium hand.. Then bomb the flop ..

So as an example He raised to 40 once got one caller and on a board that was 9 high he shipped all in for like 400 . I am 100% sure he had an overpair..

In a hand I called his 25 raise with QT suited 5 ways so $125 in the pot.. Flop came Q high and he lead out for $25.. flop had a two flush so I made it $75 in case he was on a draw everyone folded to him and he snapped folded..

Sooo this lead me to think.. So when he raises big play hands that can stack him if I hit say two pair or a set and when he raises a bit smaller play a super wide range and just raise his tiny cbets as bluffs...

Now here is a hand I played after thinking this through

V1 is older bet tell guy- 1000
V2 is super loose calling station and bluffer.. 1000+
Hero.. I have 1200

V1 opens to 50 over 1 limper I call in HJ with JJ V2 calls on btn.. limper also called.. pot $200

Flop 9 8 2

V1 leads $65

Sooo.. I have JJ and villain kinda makes a small bet.. Do I raise? Flat?

Raise: Protects my equity in the pot.. will be hard for players behind me to peel with other pairs straight draws and overs

Flat: Villain might be thinking $65 is a big bet and will ship over my raise.. And I just wasted say $200.. A player behind me might have flopped two pair or a set and will ship it in and it cost me more to find out..


thoughts???

Comments

  • firespitter Posts: 243Subscriber
    I'm thinking raise to 200 to try to get value from super loose guy. It's weird though cause this doesn't really work as a value bet vs older guy... He probably shoves QQ+, folds all else. But if he folds super loose guy will call you with 9x or draws like JT (and maybe even gutshots). I think this is the best scenario... Get old guy out of the way and take loose guy to value town... 300 turn, 500 river on good run outs. (Turn other than ace, queen, ten, nine, or 7). Scarier cards I'd often bet turn and hope to check bAck river.

    If you flat there's a lot of bad turn cards... And even on good turns it will be hard to build a pot with the best hand... A turn raise will look even stronger. The upside is you could save money vs old guy (if he bets turn id fold!)... I could actually see a lot of merit either way... Having made my suggestion I'm second guessing myself, but I think the fundamentally sound approach is to try to charge loose guy for his draw or top pair.
  • Arenzano Posts: 1,386Subscriber
    You are in a four way multiway pot with JJ, which is vulnerable to over cards. I would raise to like $175 for value and some protection. This may cause your V peel with with his AK, AQ. If he ships over the top, then you know your'e beat.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,083SubscriberProfessional
    for the big reveal

    Spoiler:
    so of course I KNEW I should raise but again because I havent been running as well I didnt take the best line and just called his bet..

    As expected the super loose player called as well.

    Turn 9 it checks through

    River 3.. super loose player bets $125.. omc folds I call and super loose player has pocket 3s..

    so my read was right on the old guy but I didnt protect my equity in the hand.. I lost a $500 + pot because I am not playing my A+ game because of all of the tough spots I have been in.

    Understand I am not getting super coolered .. I have been card dead and not getting any value. What happened here was that I was up around $300 prior to this hand and I was trying to protect my win rather than protecting my equity.

    A great lesson to learn .. for all of us.. on how running bad or running well can affect your play. I am 100% sure that if this hand took place three weeks ago I would have raised and protected my equity and won the pot on the flop.. or folded if I got shipped on..



  • Letmewin1 Posts: 1,238Member
    edited October 2015
    You don't even get a chance to chime in b4 spoiler.. Have to fight my urge to look at it..
    I'd like to address something b4 the hand regarding ATC V's this type of 'bet sizing' tell V, you'd want to ISO him via 3 bets not flatting with a wider range, I'd 3! A pretty wide range so I could get
    1) HU
    2) more dead $
    In you Q10 hand what do you do if miss the flop and he bets,
    Do you still raise?

    Otth
    I don't think you have to raise $200 for value/protection, $175/$180 will suffice, you'll be 'repping'( hate that word) very strong to others behind and they'll never ship light, even QQ( unlikely) will have a hard time calling a raise and a turn bet.

    This doesn't seem like you, don't let your current swing cloud your judgment!

    On to spoiler...
    Just read it :-/

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