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Flop play

Oneup Posts: 30Subscriber
1/2/5 plo, $500 cap. V is early 50's white male plays pretty tight range. Mid afternoon, table is pretty passive no 3/4b pre, ton of limp/call. $500eff, I cover the table. V limp in utg2, few more limpers, Hero in btn with T987ss raise to $20. sb folds, bb, V and one limper calls. Player in my direct right ships for $65, I flat, everyone calls. 5way to the flop.

Flop: J75r. bb check, V bet $200 leaving $235 behind. folds to me. Is this spot always re-pot gii since I don't think I can fold turn bet if brick? I have one guy behind me.

I've played with this guy probably 3 times a week. He usually pots it with set here. I'm not sure he'd play AAxx in this fashion with 5 way but I have seen overplay some hand. I block middle set since I have 7. Thought?

Also pre flop option. Always flat there?

Comments

  • FreeLunch Posts: 1,308Pro
    I like the flat pre as raiser probably has you beat heads up. On the flop if you are against AA and JJ you have almost 39% equity so the question is call or jam. He is never folding a set or probably even 2pair.

    If you were a lot deeper this is a call and evaluate. But given the low spr I really wish I knew more about what kinds of ranges people in your game will go broke with here. In a vacuum I jam
  • CalgaryPokerGuy Posts: 342Subscriber
    The first thing I thought was re-pot preflop over the $65 short-stack shove... From your description of the villains, I'm thinking you will get folds from the other players almost always. Then you're heads up with the short stack with plenty of dead money. It doesn't matter if you're behind his range, you're getting over 2 to 1 with the dead limps and $20's.

    As played I like calling flop, IF you can narrow his range strictly to sets. That way you can fold on board-pairing turns and save that money. If you make your hand he will probably not check-fold, so you get paid either way. If he's wider then I would just shove with piles of equity. Maybe you even had a live bdfd :)
  • FreeLunch Posts: 1,308Pro
    Calgary

    There is a strong argument for not 3 betting often in these games. In passive limpy PLO games you are playing against a lot of people who are happy to see 2 good cards in their hand. When you start 3 betting - that forces them to tighten up. Sooner or later they get they idea that 4 cards are better than 3, that medium pairs suck,etc. Bad things for them to know.

    Even worse, a lot of new to PLO holdem players that you really want in these games, guys that make big post flop mistakes, will quit a PLO game with too much preflop action. Loose passive PLO games with lots of limpers are a gold mine - much lower variance and just as profitable.

    While its great to find a deep action games with amateurs who love to gamble - I wonder if those games are really good for the long term adoption of PLO. I'm not 100% sure I am right about all the above, but I think there is both short and long term value from encouraging loose passive PLO games by discouraging a lot of isolating and pre flop aggression.
  • Oneup Posts: 30Subscriber
    I thought about 3b repot pre but in this game ISO 3b usually end up being 4way allin pre or bloated big pot multiway.

    Ok so I just flat flop bet from V, everybody folds.

    Turn 7x
    V ships remaining $235. Whats my move?
  • High__Rolla Posts: 765Subscriber
    If you have a reasonable chance of shutting out the other players, then 3betting pot over V's ship is best preflop. You have about 42% equity versus a Top 20% hand, and I tend to discount him holding super premium based on the position he limped/reraised from. If it is likely to turn into an all-in fest preflop, then I prefer to call with position.

    As played, I would just flat OTF. You have no fold equity here. All your draws are to the nuts, so no need to clean up your outs versus the other opponent.
  • High__Rolla Posts: 765Subscriber
    Oneup said:
    Turn 7x
    V ships remaining $235. Whats my move?
    It's really tough to fold here getting 960:235, or needing about 20% equity. You are drawing basically dead vs JJxx and J7xx, though. You said this opponent typically pots OTF the flop with a set - he only bet $200 into a pot of $325, when he could've gotten most of his stack in. So, I agree and tend to discount JJ. If he ever has 75xx or 55xx, you have the pot odds to call here. I don't love it, but I think I would go with this one based on the pot odds.

  • Oneup Posts: 30Subscriber
    I thought about it and he looked really uncomfortable putting his last chips in the pot when turn came out. I thought for long time and made a call.
    by 1Dusty
  • High__Rolla Posts: 765Subscriber
    Oneup said:
    I thought about it and he looked really uncomfortable putting his last chips in the pot when turn came out. I thought for long time and made a call.
    Did you see his hand?
  • Oneup Posts: 30Subscriber
    edited November 2015
    No he just said good call and mucked it. I ended up bink the t otr and scooped it
  • RizenRizen Posts: 58Subscriber
    Gii on the flop
    by 1Dusty
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