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10/20 plo8 on bovada

Edge Posts: 54Subscriber
Should I have folded this pre?
1st hand at table
Hero in BB $1000- 4 5 3 2
Villain on button $3049 - A T 2 3

Playing 5 handed
UTG+1 Raises to $40
Button Raises to $113.85
I call from BB
UTG+1 folds

Flop 7 4 A
I check
Button bets 309.77
I move all in
Button calls
Turn J River J


  • reedmylipsreedmylips Posts: 1,145Subscriber
    I don't know, you have a one-way low hand. I like your hand in a more passive context, like UTG raises and two people just call, then you call. This is disastrous in a 3-bet pot from OOP as your hand has very little scoop potential. Lots of putting money in for half the pot.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    First of all WOW you are playing some rather high stakes on bovada..

    I like calling with this hand in PLO8.. hope an ace flops ..

    I would remove what villain has on your hand histories as it makes the responses better..

    So an ace flops and you have a wrap and a pretty much uncounterfeitable low. Against AAxx you are in great shape.. you would have to be up against specifically AA23 for you to be in bad shape..

    I like your check raise on the flop for max fold equity.. This hand really shows how bad players are in PLO8 .. if you ran the equity I dont really like his hand that much.. and I feel you were just kinda unlucky to :

    1) be up against top pair and nut low draw..
    2) against a player who will go with a pair of aces TEN kicker and nut low draw..

    goto pro poker tools and you can run equities.. If you have a set he is in rather bad shape. If you have aces up he is in a little better shape but still .. If you have say AQ23 or AK23 he is in really BAD shape.. If you have Axhh with a low draw he isnt in that good of shape either..

    The sign of a good plo8 player is when you can FOLD a hand such as his when you can range your opponent where generally at best you are chopping but equity wise can be really really far behind.. Calling to chop is really really bad in PLO8..

    I really like the way you played the hand. I am just so surprised you are playing such high stakes..
  • BartBart Posts: 5,921AdministratorLeadPro
    edited November 2015
    I've played a bit at 5-10 and 10-20PLO8 games on Bovada. The games seem far less fishy to me than than the high stakes limit games that I have made videos on.

    With that being said, against a normal early position raise and a 3 bet, unless your opponents have shown that they are maniacs you have to just pitch pre. Your hand is so dependent on an ace flopping and in this case two of them really should be dead.

    As played I just dont really see any type of fold equity especially with a high frequency that the 3 better pre has either AAx or premium A2X with backup. I haven't run the numbers but doubt you are a favorite vs AAw or AP23 (P=Paint) --Bart

  • khalwatkhalwat Posts: 997Subscriber
    edited November 2015
    What Bart said. Good hand but two aces should be dead. First hand at the table I fold pre.

    I see no point in jamming flop. You need a scare card to come if you're trying to bluff him off of most made hands.

    Even 5-handed, readless, I think this is an overplay pre and an overplay on the flop.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    ok well I guess I am the donk here.. lol...

  • chilidog Posts: 2,427Subscriber
    Seems like a spot to dump it pre since as Bart said we are really dependent on flopping an ace , but shipping the flop seems fine once we get there.
  • eyehaityou Posts: 292Member
    I fold here to a three bet pre at this lvl. As played, this is almost your dream flop. No scoop outs post flop Reed? He's got a wheel wrap. Never getting scooped. About 53%vs47%. And Villan could possibly fold on 2 or 3 turn. If your calling pre, you need to go with this flop. My shots at these stakes have been limited so take my input with a grain of salt but If you have the roll to call a 3 bet pre with this hand, you can get it in post.
    by 1Edge
  • reedmylipsreedmylips Posts: 1,145Subscriber
    eyehaityou said:
    No scoop outs post flop Reed? He's got a wheel wrap. Never getting scooped.
    I never said hero doesn't have scoop outs Lance. I said pre-flop his hand doesn't have much scoop potential. Obviously on this specific flop vs. this specific hand, hero has several wheel scoop outs. But very often when we flop the uncounterfietable nut low or nut low draw with this hand, it is for the low only and not for scooping.

    We can make no flushes and cannot flop any sets. When we flop only the NLD and get heat, we are usually only calling to win half the pot, and that's when we're not getting quartered.
  • eyehaityou Posts: 292Member
    I agree 100% hero is getting quartered or chopping on this flop. Can Villan fold a 2 or 3 turn? I think it's possible . Is hero ever folding a brick turn? Doubt it. If heros not folding and Villan may, might as well get paid if hero hits one of his few outs to scoop. That's how I'd play this hand as played. Don't think anyones advocated calling the three bet preflop vs almost anyone.
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