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Another hand vs Karic and co.

UTG). $300 very aggressive and wide range; 3 bets pre frequently; good post flop skills
Btn) Karic($2100) very tight preflop and post. Definitely a long time winning reg who doesn't make many mistakes.
Me) BB $1700

UTG 20
BTN call
Hero 65 T J Q K

Flop($200) 8 9 K

Hero $175
UTG AI $225
Karic asks "how much do you have left?" And raises to 800

Karic knows I'm a winning player. In general we have stayed out of each other's way as we're the big stacks at the table He knows I'm not 3betting out of the blinds and bombing flop light.


  • RizenRizen Posts: 58Subscriber
    This is the 1/2/5 game in Horseshoe Cincinnati btw. If any of the players there are in these forums I'd especially like your input. Again, Karic is a really nitty/tight player and a big winner and has been for a long time.
  • Oneup Posts: 30Subscriber
    edited November 2015
    I think he has minimum top set. He might have same wrap with nfd. He is not raising w/ just wrap.

    Is this hand happened last night?
  • reedmylipsreedmylips Posts: 1,145Subscriber
    edited November 2015
    I think you need to ship the cookies. You have 2nd NFD which is either good or your hearts are blockers (you also block J , although if villain has a flush draw, he's likely to have the J in his hand), and nut top wrap with top set blocker. Close your eyes and go with it.
  • RizenRizen Posts: 58Subscriber
    Oneup said:
    I think he has minimum top set. He might have same wrap with nfd. He is not raising w/ just wrap.

    Is this hand happened last night?
    Yea it happened last night. Karic never gets out of line especially against other good players. I block top set, but he is so nutted here.
  • RizenRizen Posts: 58Subscriber
    I feel like it's kindve tough to post these hands because everyone's advice( unless you're a Cincy reg) is from a vacuum. Game flow and player tendencies are so important and unless you're in that game frequently it's hard to say what the correct play is at that time.
    Appreciate everyone's advice though
  • chilidog Posts: 2,427Subscriber
    Since we have a K in our hand, it cuts down the top set possibilities to 1 combo, which weights him more towards but draws. Like AJhhXX. Where XX give him at least a straight draw if not a wrap. However, if he has NFD + SD we are ahead with top pair and we can get the money in really good.

    If he has a set, we are still getting the money in good. Can't see ever folding this hand, and is there any slim shred of fold equity if he has a hand like 88TT or KQJ8hh??

    Ship the chips.
  • RizenRizen Posts: 58Subscriber
    He never has middle or bottom set or blockers. He's too good and he's not going to try to get fancy or build a big pot if he isn't nutted, especially this deep.
    I ended up shipping over the top after tanking for about 45 sec. Like the other posters said, there's just no way I can fold here, even against a winning, thinking, nitty player. I just wanted to check my line and make sure others agreed.
    He ended up having A 5 9 K
  • tomorrow33tomorrow33 Posts: 485Subscriber
    What was the board runout?
  • reedmylipsreedmylips Posts: 1,145Subscriber
    I agree, tough to give advice when villain tendencies and game flow so important. However, you posted the hand and asked, and I'm glad you decided to ship, even though against his exact hand you are only 40%.

    If you want to play tougher against a tough opponent from out of position, like in this hand, maybe next time you could consider checking flop to either check/call with your nutty draws, or check/raise pot to apply maximum pressure to big hands. If you 3-bet in this spot with AAxx without the NFD, would you lead this flop or check? It might also protect/disguise your range to check almost your entire range on this flop. You start the flop street very deep at 8.5:1 SPR, so your flop lead for near pot isn't going to get much fold equity, but a check/raise might.
  • RizenRizen Posts: 58Subscriber
    I check with a dry AA here. Depending on my side cards I might not even 3 bet pre. I also don't check raise nearly often enough.
    Good players will check back a lot, and if I'm really deep then I find myself in awkward turn spots when the nuts change. This would've been a good c/r candidate hand though
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