Welcome.

Take a tour. Enjoy some free sample content.

How it works

Free Video: CLP Video No. 287: Home Game Bart Reviews His Splashy At $1-$3 Deep Part 2

Free Podcast: CLP Podcast No. 54: Time Warp And Turn Value
New to Crush Live Poker?

2/5 400BB KK OOP

styx Posts: 33Subscriber
edited November -1 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Hello,

The game in question is uncapped and at that point was very deep, several players had 400BB+. Main villain is a young guy who started coming to the casino a couple of weeks ago and always buys in deep. I overheard him saying that he also plays online, he is somewhat aggressive with draws, but he also limps, doesnt 3-bet light and postflop seems to be competent but not great.

The hand:
Old guy (3k stack) opens in EP to 35, villain (2k) calls on the button, i make it 135 in the SB with KK. I sometimes 3-bet light which both opponents know but haven't done so in this session since everybody called pre.
Both players call, pot is 410.
Flop is 934 rainbow.
I bet 250, old guy folds, villain calls pretty fast. Pot is 910.
Turn is 8 completing the rainbow. We have about 1600 effective stacks.

Whats my play?

Comments

  • Tyrith Posts: 353Subscriber
    This deep, I feel like he might be calling a 3-bet with a suited connector some of the time, so the 8 isn't an awesome card - 76 gets there, 98 gets there. There are also some set combos where he might be letting you double barrel him with AK. However, I don't think he'd fold T9 to one bet, and I feel like T9/QQ/JJ/TT are all going to call at least one more time, so I'd bet/fold roughly 500, then expecting the river to go check/check a lot.
  • Qw3Rtzui0p Posts: 36Member
    Bad card for us..

    First at all, Id discard a TT,JJ,QQ, this guy is a flat caller. So i think his range is more towards SC (98,T9,76..) Maybe something like Q9,J9 + pairs...
    So Id bet fold turn with something like 550-620.
  • TJ Posts: 239Subscriber
    Bet fold turn ($450 or so). If he calls, ship all in when the K hits the river.
  • TDF Posts: 1,130Subscriber
    b/f turn, ship river.
  • TDF said

    b/f turn, ship river.
    easy game, I like 725/875 to get the most crying calls OTR
  • styx Posts: 33Subscriber
    To the people who say bet/fold turn and expect check/check river: do you c/f or c/c the river?

    To the people who say b/f turn and ship river: isn't that a bit thin for 400bb? He would have to call all three streets with a bluff catcher basically (i'm pretty sure he would 3b at least JJ+ at that point from gameflow, i didnt say that in the OP. But even QQ is a bluff catcher on the river).

    Results:
    My first instinct was to b/f turn, but i ended up checking it with the plan to bet the river if checked through or possibly check/call turn and check/fold river (there arent a lot of draws he can turn into a bluff).
    He bet something like 750 and i thought he would use a smaller sizing with a set or two pair, it seemed to me he wanted me to fold. After some thought i changed my plan and shipped the turn for basically a minraise to 1600.
    He called with 52s for an OESD and the river bricked (both times, we ran it twice).

    I play a lot deep lately and many weaker players seem to stack off with an overpair as a standard which i think is a big mistake. It gives me huge implied odds with pocket pairs and suited connectors. I never use pot control when i'm not deep, but i think it might be a good idea when deeper.

    I would love to see some more analysis of deep play on the show, i think thats quite interesting even to people who play in capped games.
  • styx Posts: 33Subscriber
    As a side note: I never really used SPR a lot, except for sizing my bets so i can get it in on the river or something like that.
    I think in deeper games i will use it more to evaluate how deep the pot is. For instance this hand is 400bb deep, but due to the pre-flop action the pot is already big and maybe i should in fact stack off here with an overpair (as opposed to in a single raised pot).
  • WackabrewWackabrew Posts: 400Subscriber
    styx said

    He called with 52s for an OESD
    He called a SB 3-bettor (even on the button), with 52s? You need to be mixing it up with him a LOT.
  • bobo1384 Posts: 145Subscriber
    If it was me, I'd bet flop/turn/river and if I ran into resistance on the flop or turn i'd probably fold. if I am check/calling the turn I'm not going to fold the river. Before reading the results, I thought his range was 9x heavy (T9s,89s,J9s,79s) with the most obvious draw being 56s. I dont like the check/call plan because I feel we only get value by doing that from inducing bets from his bluffs/draws and I think the part of his range that we beat and get value from betting is larger than the part of his range that includes bluffs/draws
  • TDF Posts: 1,130Subscriber
    You're not really deep in this hand. Deepness postflop relates to SPR not stack to BB ratio.
  • styx Posts: 33Subscriber
    TDF said

    You're not really deep in this hand. Deepness postflop relates to SPR not stack to BB ratio.
    I thought about that too. But there is the fact that it's a 3bet pot.
    Do you think the following two situations are equal and would you stack off with the same ranges as villain?

    1) The hand in my OP
    2) A single raised pot with you in position, 3 players to the flop and the same SPR.

    Due to the stronger range of the 3bettor i think you have to tighten your calling range as well (and also weight it differently, since you have more implied odds on your draws and are less often up against dominating draws).

    So while you are right about the hand not being very deep, there is still an argument to be made that it's hard to get 3 streets with an overpair (as opposed to a single raised pot).

    By the way, i remember an old episode of Barts podcast (maybe Cash Plays) where Samoleus was a guest. I'm not quite sure, but i think i remember him saying something like he used to play superdeep live once a year and that he chose not to 3bet any hand out of position. Can someone confirm/deny that and what are your thoughts on that?
  • styx Posts: 33Subscriber
    Wackabrew said
    styx said

    He called with 52s for an OESD
    He called a SB 3-bettor (even on the button), with 52s? You need to be mixing it up with him a LOT.
    I was a bit surprised too, but then i realized that he was gunning for that old guy. He was stuck like 5k and just rebought for 3, gambling it up to get even. The old guy got it in a few hands later with 52h on A92hh against AK and won. That was also a pretty weird hand imo (because of the stack depth and because the other guy was obviously not folding).

    Anyway, what exactly do you mean by mixing it up? English is not my first language, i always thought it means to play the opposite of straight-forward, like more bluffing, semi-bluffing, etc, is that correct?
    Wouldn't a better adjustment be to bet and 3-bet wider for value instead of getting into tough spots with marginal hands out of position?
  • TJ Posts: 239Subscriber
    styx said
    By the way, i remember an old episode of Barts podcast (maybe Cash Plays) where Samoleus was a guest. I'm not quite sure, but i think i remember him saying something like he used to play superdeep live once a year and that he chose not to 3bet any hand out of position. Can someone confirm/deny that and what are your thoughts on that?
    I'm pretty sure he said he didn't 3 bet *at all*.
  • Bet/fold $460-500 on the turn and shove the river. Turn isn't a great card for us, and if I'm checking it's to induce and then I'm not folding.
Sign In or Register to comment.