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i three bet light and flopped a big hand PART 1....sizing

Drew5harkDrew5hark Posts: 571Subscriber
edited November 2015 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
2/5 NL - Seminole Hard Rock
V1-$475 - Limping and playing over half his hands...calling a lot of raises and only has show aggression once on a flopped nfd which he shoved into strength
V2-$600- playing many hands, raising big w premiums...likely isolating V1 who is weak.
HERO - covers both...solid winning image

V1 limps for $5 in MP2, V2 raises to $15 in CO, Hero raises to $55 OTB with Q J, both villains call
FLOP ($170) J T 9 V1 gives off physical tell of a careless shrug and checks, V2 checks,..HERO bets how much?

V1 can have suited connectors, broadways...possibly medium PP's but he may raise those in MP2 esp. TT/JJ
V2 will call with any 2 he raised to 15 with thinking he has odds

Comments

  • DTMooreDTMoore Posts: 156Member
    I believe you posted this in the wrong category: please repost in "NLHE Strategy Discussion," not "Poker Goals and Challenges."
  • Drew5harkDrew5hark Posts: 571Subscriber
    edited November 2015
    yup...my mistake...got it moved to the right place..thx
  • BartBart Posts: 5,723AdministratorLeadPro
    edited November 2015
    With these stack sizing you can easily get the money in by going $100, $200, AI. Flop is definitely a bet as that is one of the best boards to hit these guys' range.

    EDIT: misread post see below.

    Bart
  • Drew5harkDrew5hark Posts: 571Subscriber
    edited November 2015
    Bart said:
    With these stack sizing you can easily get the money in by going $100, $200, AI. Flop is definitely a bet as that is one of the best boards to hit these guys' range.

    Bart
    I'm a little surprised that you think that I can get called by much worse in a 3-bet pot...There are a few hands that I beat here that can call with a queen and maybe AT or 98 but I lose to any jack (except J8) and there are several 2 pr combos that I lose to, namely JT/T9. Basically, I've made a hand with a strong draw but could easily be behind if anyone calls me.
    I still think I need to bet, but it's most for equity protection and not to get called by much worse. I wonder what the correct sizing is here as I bet $115 but feel it is a mistake.
  • BartBart Posts: 5,723AdministratorLeadPro
    Drew5hark said:
    Bart said:
    With these stack sizing you can easily get the money in by going $100, $200, AI. Flop is definitely a bet as that is one of the best boards to hit these guys' range.

    Bart
    I'm a little surprised that you think that I can get called by much worse in a 3-bet pot...There are a few hands that I beat here that can call with a queen and maybe AT or 98 but I lose to any jack (except J8) and there are several 2 pr combos that I lose to, namely JT/T9. Basically, I've made a hand with a strong draw but could easily be behind if anyone calls me.
    I still think I need to bet, but it's most for equity protection and not to get called by much worse. I wonder what the correct sizing is here as I bet $115 but feel it is a mistake.
    Sorry I totally read this as the board coming out 89T :r: thought u had flopped the nuts!!

    I actually like a check back here and see what develops. If turn is a brick and it is checked to you bet. So much is going to depend on what comes later on.
  • Drew5harkDrew5hark Posts: 571Subscriber
    edited November 2015
    Bart...I agree and think turn is a call if bet into and probably a fold if bet into again on the river depending on the sizing.
    As played I bet $115 and V1 shoved for $420 total while V2 folded....I felt it was likely 2 pr or 87 and I was priced into a call. 705:305 to call
    I assume I'm looking at this right....if he has T9 I have 13 outs, JT I have 11 outs and vs 87 I have 7 outs...2.3:1 is just too good after my bet sizing and I'm forced to call, correct?
  • BartBart Posts: 5,723AdministratorLeadPro
    edited November 2015
    Drew5hark said:
    Bart...I agree and think turn is a call if bet into and probably a fold if bet into again on the river depending on the sizing.
    As played I bet $115 and V1 shoved for $420 total while V2 folded....I felt it was likely 2 pr or 87 and I was priced into a call. 705:305 to call
    I assume I'm looking at this right....if he has T9 I have 13 outs, JT I have 11 outs and vs 87 I have 7 outs...2.3:1 is just too good after my bet sizing and I'm forced to call, correct?
    I think he may have a set more than 2 pair, if he only calls the suited connectors. Thats why I actually like checking this flop back as seeing the next street reveals so much equity with your specific hand.
  • BartBart Posts: 5,723AdministratorLeadPro
    edited November 2015
    Check this Mac stove out.. god its really close and a sick spot. And I hate the word "sick" too, which is why I like a flop check back. 1/3.3= 30%. And at this type of neutrality, even though I do like to gamble in these spots, so much can be learned by the next card.
  • Drew5harkDrew5hark Posts: 571Subscriber
    I think we can discount most sets except maybe 99...even most passive players raise TT/JJ from MP2 with none in the pot and I think this guy would do the same. As for KQs, there is a frequency where he just calls or clicks it, so I discount that slightly too which gives us a bit more equity. Either way, there's not really a bet size of over half the pot that doesn't commit us on the flop which makes it a check back. If there were a two flush on board, I'd be way more comfortable with a cbet and call off but this was a pretty close spot.
  • BartBart Posts: 5,723AdministratorLeadPro
    Didnt V2 raise from the CO preflop?
  • boredoo Posts: 221Subscriber
    edited November 2015
    @Bart, did you interned to include J9s+ in your range (which I think means J9s, QTs, KJs, AQs--maybe I misunderstand the notation)? KJ seems especially unlikely to raise here, and AQ is open ended and a gutter to the nuts--how often are people at this level raising that? Also JTs is missing.

    I get 33% equity against this range:

    http://propokertools.com/simulations?b=jhTs9d&g=he&h1=QsJd&h2=99,TT,JJ,Jx9x,+JxTx,Tx9x,7x8x,AxJx&s=generic

    99,TT,JJ,J9s,JTs,T9s,78s

    Including over pairs in Vs range barely changes anything--heroes equity actually goes up a few tenths of a %.
  • Drew5harkDrew5hark Posts: 571Subscriber
    edited December 2015
    Villain limped and called 2 raises cold oop. This doesn't narrow him down too far but I think SC's are far more likely 99-JJ.

    I think the key is that the bet sizing doesn't allow me to fold once I'm raised if he has 2 pr in his range.
  • afiguy357 Posts: 99Subscriber
    Bart said:


    Sorry I totally read this as the board coming out 89T :r: thought u had flopped the nuts!!

    I actually like a check back here and see what develops. If turn is a brick and it is checked to you bet. So much is going to depend on what comes later on.
    Say it's a single raised pot with us as the pfr, do you still check back?
  • GuccGucc Posts: 17Subscriber
    Flop is a pretty trivial check IMO. This isn't a big hand at all really. We have a marginal pair and mediocre draw on a board that smashes their ranges fairly hard. There's plenty of KQ that can ship on us and leave us approximately dead as well. The turn card and resulting action will give us a lot more to go on.
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