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LO8 -- raising with the nuts

boredoo Posts: 223Subscriber
I was playing HORSE last night and found myself in this spot in O8. I had AQQ2, I raised pre in EP, got two callers. Flop comes KJT rainbow to give me the nuts in a three-way limped pot pre-flop. I led out, got raised by MP, LP called, I re-raised, MP 4bet, call and I ended the action.

Turn was a 9 completing rainbow and busting any runner-runner lo draws. I bet out. Got raised by MP, LP call. At this point since I have QQ and an A, I am: 1) 100% sure that MP also has AQ, and 2) given that only the case Q is left and two aces are gone, I am 3) 95% that LP is chasing the boat with KK or TT, more likely TT since I think this player would 3bet KK pre because he doesn't understand O8 starting hands.

On the turn, should I be going to another raise-to-the-cap war with MP to charge the set in LP? Does it make sense to call to keep something like AA in my range? Or do I just keep my hand face up and get the value? What about on the flop -- does it ever make sense to just call his flop raise instead of raising?

Limit noob here. Thanks--



  • BartBart Posts: 5,921AdministratorLeadPro
    God I hate the term "face up". Who cares if other people know your hand is AQ. You have to charge the third guy in the hand drawing to a board pair.

  • boredoo Posts: 223Subscriber
    edited December 2015
    @Bart, Thanks. That's what I figured -- no one is ever folding.

    In this hand the board paired on river (K). I checked and the guy who I know has AQ still bet out (yep, game is good). LP then just flats (!)

    If MP raises here, is this a snap-fold?

    Given he called, Is this still a crying call getting over 15:1? It seems like he can only have one hand (TT)? Both the villains are pretty bad in O8 -- but it seems like MP has worse than broadway less than 5% of the time.

    Sorry if these are newb questions -- I'm learning these games as fast as I can because they just started running mixed games in our small room and there's tons of dead money from people who literally have no clue.
    by 1Dusty
  • BartBart Posts: 5,921AdministratorLeadPro
    You probably shouldn't be in the business of making big folds in limit, so probably not. Also make sure u are doing your River math correctly. You are calling to chop pot..so are u getting 15-1 or 7.5-1?
  • gusthefish Posts: 21Subscriber
    I think we should be a little bit worried about MP freerolling us with a redraw (AKQJ, AKQT, AQKK, AQJJ, AQTT, AQJT) and because we have no redraw we might just want to call the turn raise. But I don't mind getting it capped either. Its kind of player dependent. We block the AQ part of his range really well, the rest of it not so much. In the low limit games I play, sometimes you get a goofball who is capping with top set here because he is a goofball.

    On the river check call 1 bet is the right play. If LP had raised I think it is a clear fold. What hands is LP turning into a bluff? His bluffing range basically doesn't exist when he raises river. MP is always at least calling (bet-folding here by MP would be terrible after we muck), sometimes MP is 3 betting. But for 1 bet we have to call.

    As far as deception and keeping ranges somewhat balanced in LO8 I have found there is no need for balance because no one is paying attention to your range! Some old person coffee types (O8 version) will put you on AAxx everytime you raise pre in 8/16 or lower stakes so having some balance there can throw them but really the only part of your line they care to notice is preflop and that is only because they want to limp their entire range and you just made them make a decision. I guess they are also concerned with whether or not you bet or raise with just the low. They are interested in observing that too.

    I play in a "small room" card room everyday and the HORSE game they spread is very profitable but the omaha 8 games they spread 3-4 times a week are ridiculous. If you can get a smaller stakes O8 game going in a small room with people who like to gamble your profits can be amazing.
  • gusthefish Posts: 21Subscriber
    edited December 2015
    Actually I think raising the turn to get it capped is around a +ev of .4 big bet if we are losing to a full house a full 20% of the time and just calling on the turn is ev neutral (x% of the time we win 0 extra bets and (100-x)% of the time we lose 0 extra bets). So raising is the best play. If MP doesn't cap our ev for raising is +.2 of a big bet (80% of the time we win 1/2 a bet and 20% of the time we lose 1 bet, .4-.2=.2). Assuming we are always chopping with MP when we win and never scooping.
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