Welcome.

Take a tour. Enjoy some free sample content.

How it works

Free Video: CLP Video No. 287: Home Game Bart Reviews His Splashy At $1-$3 Deep Part 2

Free Podcast: CLP Podcast No. 54: Time Warp And Turn Value
New to Crush Live Poker?

$5-10 AA w Fullhouse on Board (Podcast 2/23/16)

BartBart Posts: 5,921AdministratorLeadPro
edited February 2016 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
5:00PM $5-10 at Commerce. Hero has neutral image and raises to $35 w A♠A♥. Unknown CO, 30s something 300lber calls w $1200 HU.


$80 FLOP: T♦4♦4♣

I bet 45, he calls quickly.

$170 TURN: T♠. I check, he bets $85. I call.

$340 RIVER: T♥

What's our River play here??
Tagged:
«1

Comments

  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    I probably bet fold like 175. Don't think he bluffs this river often enough to check. betting lets us stop him from checking back like 77 and also bet bigger than he may with whatever value hands he has.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    I would consider checking to villain since he bet turn. first thing I did was double check if bart had the ace of diamonds. he doesnt. to me that rather important because now vil can have every ace high flush draw

    the fact that villain calls quickly and hes an unknown means his flop calling range on the flop are pairs tens flush draws.

    but when bart checks turn I am not so sure villain is just going to bet his pairs. I also think if he does bet his pairs he is more likely to bet bigger.

    so on the river I would consider check calling for this reason. If villain has a flush draw he might try to steal the pot. this is assuming he is bluffing the turn.

    if he had a ten he will raise bart for sure. but if he is bluffing a flush draw he wont call barts bet on the river.

    although quads is hard to get I am just not sure how much value bart would get if he bet

    if villain had checked turn I would lead small on the river. but since he bet I am leaning towards checking and calling depending on how much and live read
  • maphacks Posts: 2,009Subscriber
    edited February 2016
    this is clearly a check. his turn betting range is fullhouse or nothing very very often. we don't block any flushdraws. I check/call.

    against a good opponent, this is a check/fold and I will balance my x range OTT with fullhouses a LOT
  • Stonewalled Posts: 480Subscriber
    edited February 2016
    This seems like a bet to me, somewhere around 1/2 pot. I think he's very pair heavy here, and he'll look you up with most of them and would probably check behind with them sometimes.

    It would be very interesting if he raises if you bet. I did think he had a lot of Tx hands on the flop. Nevertheless, it would be tough to fold this -- one thing I'm thinking about is that your turn check makes your hand look weaker and so it's possible if he raises the river he's doing it because he thinks his pair hand is good or as a bluff.
  • iamallin Posts: 1,173SubscriberProfessional
    I bet fold $275

    He is not going to bluff on this river a lot. He knows he can never get you to fold a apir. No one folds a full house. He is also either going to check back or bet small with his pairs.

    If we bet big it might look like we are trying to buy the pot with a high or busted draws. Pairs will often look us up.

  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    iamallin said:
    I bet fold $275

    He is not going to bluff on this river a lot. He knows he can never get you to fold a apir. No one folds a full house. He is also either going to check back or bet small with his pairs.

    If we bet big it might look like we are trying to buy the pot with a high or busted draws. Pairs will often look us up.

    Do you think he will call with say 9s? for $275??? This is one of those really interesting spots that I am not sure we can get called by worse if we bet.. Since bart checked turn I think if he bets the river it just looks too strong..

    ww
  • iamallin Posts: 1,173SubscriberProfessional
    I think so. Most players make calling mistakes more than folding mistakes. Specially when you consider that he will have to fold a full house if he doesn't want to pay us off. 275 is a small price to pay to avoid the emotional pain of folding full house and not knowing if you were right.
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    Thehammah said:
    iamallin said:
    I bet fold $275

    He is not going to bluff on this river a lot. He knows he can never get you to fold a apir. No one folds a full house. He is also either going to check back or bet small with his pairs.

    If we bet big it might look like we are trying to buy the pot with a high or busted draws. Pairs will often look us up.

    Do you think he will call with say 9s? for $275??? This is one of those really interesting spots that I am not sure we can get called by worse if we bet.. Since bart checked turn I think if he bets the river it just looks too strong..

    ww
    If he is going to fold everything but quads here we should be bluffing here 100%. I don't think we can assume this.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    I think if villain had checked turn then maybe he would call with a worse pair. given he bet turn I am just not so sure only because if Bart leads he is basically saying I have either a really big pair or I have a ten.. It just looks so nutty..

    issue is villain has a ten in his range and bart really doesnt.. I mean if we were at the table Bart just would never play a ten this way. I am not sure how good villain is to understand this.. so take that with a grain of salt. That said even bad recs know the raise pre bet flop check turn and bet river line as pretty strong..

    If villain is a bad player then he would probably just fold a pair.. but remember he just called barts CO raise pre.. So how big can his pair really be?? If the villain threebet pre then that puts pairs like JJ+ in his range but he didnt so in reality I think maybe TT or JJ would be the biggest pair he could have..

    And if I were villain and I had a ten I am playing the hand the same way.. and if Bart leads into me on the river I am just going to bomb raise it thinking Bart has a really big pair..

    Another point is what bart says about bluffing frequencies when the top card pairs the board.. since Bart check if villain had a flush draw he might try to bluff at it on the turn.. who knows players do bizarre stuff and although I dont think villain would bluff this river after Bart calls the turn at least we are giving him a chance to do so..

    All of this said I dont think there is a right or wrong way to play this river given we were not at the table.. I have checked in this spot and I have bet in this spot. All I can say is the times I bet I almost always got raised and was forced to fold. When I checked I could call and was amazed at what villains had sometimes..

    ww
  • ridethevariance Posts: 42Subscriber
    edited February 2016
    Given the unknown nature of villain, I'd be OK in checking. The half pot size bet by him OTT doesnt look it is pocket pair because he would bet more for equity protection, if he thinks he is ahead
    but that said, there are merits in betting 1/3 to 1/2 pot, to get called by A x or other pocket pairs and obviously fold to a big raise
  • BartBart Posts: 5,921AdministratorLeadPro
    I was thinking about making a small check raise-fold, depending on his river sizing..Thoughts on that?

    With the board being TTT44 how often do we think players are betting a pair above 4s here at the end? How often does Hero (not specifically me but typical players in my spot) have ace high when they call turn?

    Also if we bet river and the guy has total air, how often is he calling because of the FH that is on board?
  • PBJTIME Posts: 338Subscriber
    edited February 2016
    Players in my games will often call a 1/3 pot sized bet with air hoping to chop the pot when there is a FH on the board. I'd prefer to lead here with a small bet of 100-120. However, I play at the 2/5 level, I'm not sure how your 5/10 pool reacts.
  • dontfeedthenits Posts: 396Subscriber
    edited February 2016
    Bart said:
    I was thinking about making a small check raise-fold, depending on his river sizing..Thoughts on that?

    With the board being TTT44 how often do we think players are betting a pair above 4s here at the end? How often does Hero (not specifically me but typical players in my spot) have ace high when they call turn?

    Also if we bet river and the guy has total air, how often is he calling because of the FH that is on board?
    I think I like check call best. He's going to bet with almost all of the hands he'd call our bet with, plus he will sometimes bet missed draws.

    C/R might squeeze a tiny bit of value out of a pair, but if he ever comes over the top with a worse hand it's really bad news.

  • BartBart Posts: 5,921AdministratorLeadPro
    dontfeedthenits said:
    Bart said:
    I was thinking about making a small check raise-fold, depending on his river sizing..Thoughts on that?

    With the board being TTT44 how often do we think players are betting a pair above 4s here at the end? How often does Hero (not specifically me but typical players in my spot) have ace high when they call turn?

    Also if we bet river and the guy has total air, how often is he calling because of the FH that is on board?
    I think I like check call best. He's going to bet with almost all of the hands he'd call our bet with, plus he will sometimes bet missed draws.

    C/R might squeeze a tiny bit of value out of a pair, but if he ever comes over the top with a worse hand it's really bad news.

    If he doesn't have a T how can he ever come back over the top with worse?
  • ridethevariance Posts: 42Subscriber
    edited February 2016
    I like bet fold than check raise. Roughly, we are attacking the same range with both lines (the range of hands the villain thinks he is good but still lose to us). To exploit that, betting is better than check calling because live players in general have the propensity to call than bet. Would you agree?

    However, if I am playing against a thin value better (someone who bets a pocket pair for value because he thinks I am calling with ace high for chop) I'd totally check raise.
  • maphacks Posts: 2,009Subscriber
    if we lead, we have to assume that A. villain bets pairs OTT + B. calls the river + C. doesn't bet river OR D. calls for a split. all in all this is not very likely IMO.

    Bart, you would play Tx that way only against certain opponents or against unknowns sometimes as well?
  • JimHamring Posts: 339Subscriber
    I think people in general very rarely bet river with 55-99. I might actually go for a leveling war x/r against a known reg just because I think they value bet those hands and once they bet they might not give me credit, or especially not think I x/r AA for value.

    B/f vs unknown and x/c vs winning reg. X/r with the right dynamics vs someone who vb 55+... That's my play.

  • Rocketman74Rocketman74 Posts: 451Subscriber
    Bart said:
    I was thinking about making a small check raise-fold, depending on his river sizing..Thoughts on that?
    kinda sexy. if he checks behind so be it but if he does bet you can min-raise him and get called a non zero percentage of the time by worse. he's never raising with anything but a T (not even with 44)
  • GhostDogGhostDog Posts: 328Subscriber
    Just a thought, but can we ever consider shipping to make it look like we're trying to blow him off a chop? I mean how often is he going to have a T?
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    GhostDog said:
    Just a thought, but can we ever consider shipping to make it look like we're trying to blow him off a chop? I mean how often is he going to have a T?
    Its possible but don't like it here because as ranges have been defined its unlikely that we would be chopping. Getting to the river both ranges are already pretty pocket pair heavy and its unlikely that both of us get to the river without a bigger boat enough for pushing one another off a chop to be considered.
Sign In or Register to comment.