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AQ raised on turn by very young Asian 5/10

hobe Posts: 209Subscriber
Hero has loose image, prolly opening too many hands stuck about 1k table is very soft and not 3! At all. This young Asian just sits down buys in full for 2k and has vey nice clothes on no reads just assumptions. Game is in Canada so assume can be online player.

Hero posts in mp after going to bathroom, opens A Q to 35

V calls and fish calls in bb

Flop A 5 10 (105)

Hero bets 65 V calls bb folds.

Turn 7 (235) hero bets 155 and V raises to 400 how do we like to proceed here readless easy fold? Should we be checking the turn ?
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Comments

  • maphacks Posts: 2,009Subscriber
    bet/folding would clearly be my default.

    If I know he is capable of semibluffing I am betting less and calldown more in case I do bet.
    by 1hobe
  • ConlanMa Posts: 181Pro
    @hobe what position did the villain call from?
  • ConlanMa Posts: 181Pro
    edited February 2016
    Given the board texture, a complete asian unknown, and some simple combo work, I think I would at least call turn. I like the fact that you have two hearts and don't block any of the flush draws. From an online perspective, I think its interesting because he actually doesn't have a lot of value combos here - online players typically don't call a raise pre with A10o (unless they're completing the big blind and don't flat hands like A7s or 710s and sometimes not A5s). That's leaves hands like A10s (note: only 1 combo), 1010 (sometimes get 3 bet), 55 for value (also at a somewhat lower weighting if he raises sometimes on the flop). They likely balance raises on turn with combo draws like JQs, KQs, (K10s), 10xss, etc.

    I'm guessing this player is flatting a wider range than an online player would (but I have no evidence). You're getting pretty good pot odds on the turn here and you can't just assume he plays online (putting hands like AJo in his range that are making a small raise to get to showdown assuming he is OOP).

    by 1hobe
  • hobe Posts: 209Subscriber
    the button @ConlanMA
  • hobe Posts: 209Subscriber
    ConlanMa said:
    Given the board texture, a complete asian unknown, and some simple combo work, I think I would at least call turn. I like the fact that you have two hearts and don't block any of the flush draws. From an online perspective, I think its interesting because he actually doesn't have a lot of value combos here - online players typically don't call a raise pre with A10o (unless they're completing the big blind and don't flat hands like A7s or 710s and sometimes not A5s). That's leaves hands like A10s (note: only 1 combo), 1010 (sometimes get 3 bet), 55 for value (also at a somewhat lower weighting if he raises sometimes on the flop). They likely balance raises on turn with combo draws like JQs, KQs, (K10s), 10xss, etc.

    I'm guessing this player is flatting a wider range than an online player would (but I have no evidence). You're getting pretty good pot odds on the turn here and you can't just assume he plays online (putting hands like AJo in his range that are making a small raise to get to showdown assuming he is OOP).



    Okay cool, so i called and river was a 2 and i check and he bet 725
  • hobe Posts: 209Subscriber
    Yeah these "online" things are all assumptions because ive never seen him before but it was tourney time and thought he might have came in for them. Lots of online guys were in town, obv all assumptions.
  • maphacks Posts: 2,009Subscriber
    if you decide to call turn for whatever reason, you have to call the river on blank IMO.
  • hobe Posts: 209Subscriber
    edited February 2016
    Yeah, I folded blank river which made no sense. He's betting river with his whole range. So the bet doesn't change anything
  • ConlanMa Posts: 181Pro
    edited February 2016
    Its a tough/close spot. If you decide that villain can/will have some bluffs here, I would lean towards calling river here with your hand. As mentioned in the last post, you don't block any semibluffs and do a decent job of blocking A5s/A7s and A10 (esp. suited combos).

    Against standard abc tags or regs, I think you can fold river because I think they are less likely to bluff in this spot for this sizing.

    In general, I disagree that if you call turn, you need to call river. From an exploitative/live play standpoint, his range for raising the turn includes a few combos of hands we beat in the form of AJo. He will not always fire the river at 100% frequency with his bluffs and there may be some giveups.

    From the standpoint of equilibrium play, we understand that we are peeling off parts of our range on every street as ranges become narrower. We make our opponents indifferent to bluffing by calling at a frequency where they cannot profitably bet as a bluff. Sometimes, you may call a turn bet but decide that a certain hand is low enough in your range to fold. I think ideal hands to bluff catch with in this spot are obviously A5/A10 (clubs or diamonds) but AQhh is also a decent candidate.
  • hobe Posts: 209Subscriber
    Thanks so much
  • maphacks Posts: 2,009Subscriber
    Conlan, don't you think that guys who are somewhat aggressive with their draws, will oftentimes continue bluffing OTR since they have close to zero showdown value when called OTT?

    it just seems suboptimally for a decent player to raise a combodraw OTT and then give up OTR. it is not a line I see that often.
    on the other hand, if I don't think the guy has enough semibluffs, I fold my hand OTT.

    or would your response be different if villain chose another sizing?

    and I agree that we don't have to call our whole range but AQ is pretty much the best bluffcatcher we can have here

  • ConlanMa Posts: 181Pro
    @maphacks - Yes, my response to different sizing may be different (and should be as you can call less). I think its interesting here. In my experience, when I see a smaller raise on the turn usually its a weak bluff or a made hand that wants to see a cheap showdown (i.e. Ax). Either the villain will give up or bet small with their bluffs or check back. I less frequently see a large bet on the end as a bluff (following a small raise on the turn). We have a pretty strong range for bluff catching with as we have all A10o, A5s, and A7s hands in our range. With this river bet sizing, we can remove Ax and now are purely bluff catching and IMO there aren't enough bluffs to call a standard tag or rec villain with.
  • maphacks Posts: 2,009Subscriber
    well yeah, against rec I 100% agree! however we don't even know if the guy is a rec or a good/bad pro. so my approach would be to play somewhat showdownbound and call down OR fold the turn and don't invest to much money in such spots until I find out more about his tendencies.

    maybe I missread his sizing but there could also be made the argument that he will raise his sets/2pairs way bigger because the board looks pretty wet. I see this kind of small raises more often when the board isn't that wet (at least looks pretty wet for a bad player)
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