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5/10: TPGK v bad player in big pot

Stonewalled Posts: 480Subscriber
edited March 2016 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Villain is a bad rec player in mid 50s. He sometimes will call every hand pre. Actually gets more aggro post and can make weird raises..sometimes it seems like he'll hit the raise button with whatever for no apparent reason. He's not a total maniac, just bad and erratic. Hero's image is generally a decent TAG.

Hero has AhQh on button. Effective stacks are $2,500.

Pre flop: Ep loose/passive limps, Villain limps from mp, Hero on button raises to $50. SB rock reg bb calls, Ep folds, V calls.

Flop (3 players) ($160): AsJs7h.
V leads for $90, Hero raises to $250, bb folds, V calls.

Turn (2 players) ($660): Jh.
V leads for $375, Hero calls.

River (2 players) ($1,410): 5s.
V bets $750, Hero???

Interested in thoughts on flop and turn, too.


  • carru036 Posts: 173Subscriber
    edited March 2016
    I really like the flop raise and I think most people would elect to just call but I think vs this guy raising is more +EV.

    I am a little weary of him leading turn after we raise his flop donk bet, but like you said he's "aggro post and can make weird raises". Obviously with the NFD along with TPGK I'm never folding turn.

    Again a bit weary he is leading the river, but it's a half PSB so we only need to be goo like 25% of the time to make this breakeven. If there is any chance he does this with worse aces it's a call. If not it's going to be pretty close imo.
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    I agree I do really like the flop raise and raising TP is something I need to working into my game more.

    Turn is defiantly not great. The donk, call raise, donk line is usually pretty strong. Obviously not folding now, especially with BD flush but not too happy about it.

    River is close but with spades getting in and the strength of his line i tend to lead towards fold. If spades missed I would be more willing to call this.
  • hobe Posts: 209Subscriber
    edited March 2016
    Idk this villian very well obv but maybe we can asssume his range on the flop when he leads in something like this?
    He has a bunch of FD, P+FD, then i gave him a couple 2 pairs and sets of 77, a few Ax And a few random jx Our hand vs this range is about 47% (Im sure he could be wider on the flop, just assumptions ) I like the raise on the flop since the V is very wide and is going to peel you with about his whole range.

    When he just flats the flop i'd discount 77 and aj even took a few combos of a7 away from his range which helps our equity a bunch. On the turn when the J peels and he leads, i like a call i think a raise is prolly a bit of an overplay i think? He can have picked k10hh added to his range still have a huge equity advantage vs his range on this turn.

    On the river when the 5s hits our equity falls to about 12% vs V range.

    His only bluffs in this spot should be axhh that turns hand into bluff? k10hh

    Pot is 2160/750 to call?? getting 2.8:1 this has to be a fold i would assume.

    Do we think V is still VB 77 and aj this way? I took away all of the a7 combos and the random ax.

    I'd like some feedback on this response i usually dont use these programs but am trying to learn. LMK if i was even close on the ranges on each street.
  • [Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited March 2016
    1. Raise more pre.
    2. Flat flop.
    3. AP flat turn.
    4. AP fold river.

  • Stonewalled Posts: 480Subscriber
    JapanTown said:
    1. Raise more pre.
    2. Flat flop.

    by 1hobe
  • deadinaditchdeadinaditch Posts: 205Subscriber
    edited March 2016
    Donk bet's usually don't mean much but what are you really beating by the river? Spades got there, Jx got there, AJ really got there, 77 was always there. Bluffs are usually really small or really big. Could he ever do this with Ax? Yeash! That's the power of the Donk Side, you never know where your at.
  • iamallin Posts: 1,173SubscriberProfessional
    edited March 2016
    Snap call river.

    I know this player type very well.

    They will make weird bets at any point in the hand. I would not be surprised if he was making a block bet / weak bluff/ "I don't know what I am doing but I don't want to check and face a bet so I bet myself yeehaww"

    on the river with a weak A.

    Getting 3:1, I snap call him. Against a good solid tight player, I snap fold river. Against this player, I snap call.

    We beat all his missed gutshots and weaker aces. That's more than enough hands getting 3:1 on a call.

  • iamallin Posts: 1,173SubscriberProfessional
    Good flop raise btw.

    I might also consider raising turn against him. Just punish these guys. Ruthlessly.

    His flop donk/call range is heavy in aces and occasional flush draws. He rarely has a J.

    You can't use standard poker logic against dumb players. He is not a solid TAG pro who knows reasons for betting and equity of hands and all that jazz.
  • iamallin Posts: 1,173SubscriberProfessional
    Have you observed him play hands in the session?

    How does he play his monsters?

    What has been his river sizing with his monsters?

    These guys are usually level 1 thinkers - so they tend to bet big with their monsters on the river in my experience.

  • Stonewalled said:
    JapanTown said:
    1. Raise more pre.
    2. Flat flop.

    1. Limpers and fish will call more pre = more value.
    2. No need to bloat the pot with a medium strength hand, especially deep.

  • Stonewalled Posts: 480Subscriber
    Thanks for all the good comments. I ended up folding because I didn't see hardly any bluffs or smaller value that get to that point in the hand and make that bet. Even in light of him being bad and erratic.
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