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Learning curves and making adjustments

marseille Posts: 400Subscriber
edited November -1 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
A general question for a very situational game:

When we make adjustments to our game- technical or mental- in an effort to improve, it seems pretty normal to expect some rough patches as we get used to new ways of thinking, different kinds of calculations, alternative lines, etc. My question is whether anyone has run into problems changing their game up- that is, when your object is to improve your game and evidence suggests it is eroding.

I'm having a hard time figuring out what's going in my own game.I've been trying to work on a few aspects of my play the past few months. Specifically, I've been concentrating on bet-folding more on later streets, increasing my double barrel frequency, and expanding my value betting range on the river. Unfortunately, I feel like my game is deteriorating and I am fighting the cards. Part of the problem is that this change up to my game has occurred over a pretty rough patch of cards (60 hours or so), so it's hard to separate out growing pains from variance, poor play, etc. But I am also wondering if some of these tactics just aren't well-suited to the "ecology" of the games I'm playing in. For instance, one big problem I am running into is stack sizes at 2/5. Bet-folding, double barreling and, to a decree, value betting river keep getting me in sticky situations when stacks are often 100bb and less. I feel like I am getting check called to death, and not just by stations. Maybe my handreading is off but I am just finding it really hard to profitably incorporate more elements to my game. I feel myself being pulled back to a more comfortable abc poker; it's been a winning strategy but it's also exactly what I was trying to evolve from.

Obviously I am not looking for answers to my specific game- there are plenty of leaks I'm sure- but I am curious if and how others have managed their own "learning curves"


  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    You are not alone. I talked to Bart specifically about the stack size issue and its really important to know the spr of villains in the hands. there isnt a perfect answer here but I have found that many times even after just a single raise and cbet you could find yourself pot committed if you make a turn bet..

    In these situations you have to say to yourself if you are pot committed on a turn double barrel is it likely you are ahead or have outs? In many games that I am in in LA I almost have to check back and make a decision on the river depending on what comes on the turn.. In many passive games or trappy games you may also have to check turn and not double barrel.. These are all if effective stacks are 100bbs or less..

    That is why I changed a bit the way I played and early in a session and if effective stacks are 100bbs or less then checking a turn or two or not always cbetting isnt so bad.. Its much better in my opinion to value bet then barrel off early in a session. IE dont start your session with a big bluff..

    then as your stack gets bigger and effective stacks get larger then you can incorporate many of the plays that are great for deeper stack play.

    Also and sorry for spew writing.. there are certain fit or fold players that will pretty much fold to any turn bet.. those guys are key to find asap.. even with 100bbs those guys will float the flop and fold the turn. those guys I still cbet and barrel almost any turn card..

  • TDF Posts: 1,130Subscriber
    Learning is tough but you don't want it to be easy. If it was too easy there would be no money in poker. You have the opportunity here to outwork your opponents. Take it and you will come up on top of them. This means putting more effort in away from the table - reading, studying theory, reviewing hands, talking to other players, posting on forums, getting coached etc. For example make a goal to post at least one hand a day on this forum. Don't be afraid to look stupid cause you will and that is the only way to learn - ask stupid questions.
    It's good that you're putting yourself out of comfort zone into unfamiliar situation cause it gives you opportunity to make a mistake and learn from this mistake later. It improves you as a player and winrate hit here is unavoidable. Think of money lost here as investment in your education (BTW hiring a coach might be a cheaper alternative).
    Keep up the good work - you're on the right way.
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