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$1/2 - Struggled Letting Go of AK

Sixchinsky Posts: 11Subscriber
edited April 2016 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Hero - $500 with a decent image - doubled up recently (and some)
V1 - $300 old white guy, lives in this poker room practically - definitely tight
V2 - $200 loose young guy

V2 limps UTG. Hero opens to $11 with A K UTG+1. Folds to V1 in SB along with V2.

Flop: A 7 A (pot $35)
Checks to hero who bets $20. V1 and V2 call.

Turn: 6 (pot $95)
Checks to hero who bets $40. V1 raises to $120 and V2 folds. Hero calls

River: Q (pot $335)
V1 shoves for ~$140. Hero folds.

What do you guys think about this line? I'm brand new to the site and am looking for any and all feedback. A lot of the concepts frequently discussed here are either new to me or still sinking in.

Here are some thoughts on my play after looking back:
- I probably should have bet a little bigger maybe $25 on the flop - I suspect this doesn't have a huge impact though
- Same story on the turn - to be honest I intended to bet about half the pot or a little more but I guess in the moment I just lost track of the size of the pot
-Pre flop I'm definitely putting V1 on a mid pair - I think that's a HUGE part of his range. I'm also thinking maybe AQ or a suited A10+ but I think this guy is too tight to play AJ here. Given this range when he check raised the turn I just thought he was screaming 7s, or maybe 6s. I feel like if I made a big mistake here it's just calling the turn. Should I have just made a decision here and either shoved or folded?

I ended up folding face up cus I think this guy respects me and would show me what he had when he saw me fold AK. He goes "that's what you had?? I had the same hand - I didn't think you had an A" and flips up AK. I didn't feel too bad about the fold at the time because I really think AK is the bottom of this guy's range there but maybe you guys can show me some reasons this fold was too nitty.

Also when he said "I didn't think you had an ace" it kind of opened my mind up. I realized I didn't consider for one second how he would play any of his Ax hands and how he would have to think it unlikely I have the case A. Part of this is just me thinking out loud but I'm just hoping to get some discussion going.


  • the_dude_abides Posts: 331Subscriber
    edited April 2016
    This is an interesting hand because I also find decisions like your turn decision here hard to make.

    Given your read of his range (AQ+ and full houses), I'd say turn is a fold.

    As played...I am assuming this guy is never bluffing here given your characterization of him. I don't think it's horrible to call with a plan to fold when the flush comes in and V still bets. If the flush doesn't come in, and V bets, I am calling river if I called turn. I can fold to a flush card on the river because I see these guys habitually check value hands when the scare card hits the river. If the flush card comes in and you are checked to, I am shoving targeting a worse A.

    I know that Bart hates when people say, "if you called the turn, you have to call the river when nothing changes" because the river bet often is change enough to warrant a fold....but that said I think that in this situation, this villain bets river 100% of the time that the flush does not come in. In other words, his bet changes nothing. The Q does change things a bit, but if AQ was the only hand in his range that we beat, we shouldn't have called the turn to begin with.
  • the_dude_abides Posts: 331Subscriber
    I disagree with my above post...it all seemed so clear to me...but now I am as confused as you are :)

    I thought about the pot odds...if his range is AQ+, 66, and 77, there are 8 AQ combo and 3 combos of 66 and 77. Ignoring chops, you are ahead of this range on the turn 8 out of 14 times which you are definitely getting odds for. Also, he folds 66 a lot on the flop, so maybe we shouldn't give him credit for all 3 combos of that hand.

    So I dunno anymore, but I will definitely learn something from other responses here. Thanks for posting this hand.
  • Beatsme Posts: 585Subscriber
    When you get this flop I think you should immediately start planning on how to get all the money in the middle. You are going to cooler AQ, AJ and Axs here a lot. I don't care how nitty the omc is I think it will be hard for him to fold trips As (esp if he views you as an aggro player)

    So we need to bet like our opponent has a weaker A. Start with a bigger bet otf. 30 or 35. That way you can make bigger bets on each consecutive street as well as charging fds the maximum.

    As played I would definitely shove that turn when the villain raised.

    Ps. Put results in the spoiler boxes.
  • Sixchinsky Posts: 11Subscriber
    Thanks for the feedback (I'll work on the formatting.) My big takeaway after reflecting some more on this hand is to spend a little more time putting myself in my opponents shoes. If I can do that - I probably arrive at the conclusion he has a weaker A a LOT of the time here.
  • hobe Posts: 209Subscriber
    i bet bigger on turn and call river, he is going to be op some ax and youre getting great price.
  • Sixchinsky Posts: 11Subscriber
    I had an interesting hand this weekend that made me flash back to the hand above immediately afterwards. I wanted to share because it solidified some of the points you guys made.

    V1 ($450 behind) is a tighter middle aged white guy - I made a fishy looking fold on the river to him earlier in a big pot when I missed my draw and was getting huge pot odds
    V2 has less than $100
    Hero has the table covered - winning image outside of the weird hand mentioned above

    Folds to V1 who raises to $12 in the cutoff. Button folds, V2 calls in the small blind. Hero calls in the BB with A 6.

    Flop ($36) A 7 A

    V2 checks, Hero checks, V1 checks. At this point I don't put him on an A - with the 2 clubs out there I would assume he bets that flop with any A.

    Turn 2

    V2 checks. Hero bets $25. V1 raises to $50, V2 folds. Hero calls. I instantly decide I was wrong on the flop and he has a better A than me here A LOT - decide to just call. Not a whole lot else makes sense.

    River ($136) 6 Hero bets $65. V1 raises to ~$200. Hero ships.

    V1 calls after only 5-10 seconds of deliberation. I table my hand and shortly after he shows his AK. Nice river : )

    This is sort of a role reversal from the original hand in the post. It's interesting to me because if he fastplays the flop I probably only call 1 bet and fold to a turn bet - given my perceived image of this guy. However I think this is a spot where in the past I would have gotten my money in bad on the flop/turn A LOT (even though I would have sucked out.) He coolered my exact hand and I think 95% of the players in this game get their money in bad in this spot. Just wanted to share this hand since it put a new perspective on some of the concepts initially brought up.

  • sxz18 Posts: 345Member
    There's nothing wrong with being cautious with AK but the river really doesn't change much. The only hand that you had beat which now beats you is AQ. If you're calling the turn then you should be calling this river.
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