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($5/$5) River decision when Asian MAMA shoves , Hero has 2nd NUTS!! (Call-ins 4/18/16)

ZambrotAZambrotA Posts: 372Subscriber
edited April 2016 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
$5/$5 nlhe cash game, late in the night then the dynamic is a little bit heavy in a way that people are tired or drunk not maybe making the best decisions.

Hero: ~$950, MP, Q ♠️ J ♠️ , I assume that i had bad image at the time as i doubled up some guy few hands before. I was a little bit tilted at that moment.

V1: $505, HJ, Main villain, Asian lady on her 40s, very tight, never see her making moves.

V2: $ 500, BB, likes to make moves, white guy late 20s

PF: Hero opens Q ♠️ J ♠️ on MP $20, V1 calls on the HJ and V2 also calls on the BB



Flop: ~$60, 3 ways, A ♠️ 7 ♠️ 3 ♦️

BB checks, Hero checks, V1 bets $20, V2 now check raises to $60, Hero and V1 both call.


Here i check this flop because V1 has the tendency to raise big if she has an Ace and as i think that she is Ace heavy here i opted checking.
After the check raise i decided to call because it was small bet then the check raise was the size of the pot, i didn’t give V2 too much credit anyway as he tends to like making moves and i was on tilt anyway.

1)thoughts?

Turn: $240, 3 ways, 6 ♠️

V2 checks, Hero $140, V1 calls, V2 folds.

I make my flush and lead for a little over half pot to encourage them to call with as weak as naked top pair.

2)thoughts?

River: HU, $525, 8 ♠️

Hero checks, V1 shoves her last $285…

Board A ♠️ 7 ♠️ 3 ♦️ 6 ♠️ 8 ♠️


Pot now $810 being $285 for Hero to call.

Pot odds ~2,8-1 ( Hero needs ~26% )

Hero??
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Comments

  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    I'd bet flop even with that read. Think we just give up too much checking here. If we were IP I could understand checking and going for a delayed c bet but just check calling with a draw OOP is really not something I want to be doing. I'm fine with the call. Would you ever 3 bet here?

    Turn bet is obviously good while I would go a little bigger. I mean this sets up river shove fine but might as well get more $ in the pot now while we can.

    I'd just shove river. Think you let her play a little too perfect by checking here. She just doesn't have the Ks that often and she can have some AT, A9 with a spade. Besides AK with Ks don't see how we are ever beat on river. However, once we check and she shoves I don't see how we can call with the read we have. If she is very tight and never makes moves not only is she very unlikely to bluff river but its also hard for her to have a hand to bluff with. Doubt she is the type to turn ATo into a bluff. I guess if you think she never calls with the Ts then the best play is to just c/f, however I think thats unlikely even from someone very tight
  • marseille Posts: 400Subscriber
    edited April 2016
    Bet flop with plan to barrel depending how sticky they are. Seems like V1 can have a lot of hands; why do you think she is "A heavy"?

    Cold calling V2 is ok but what about ch/raising if you think his range is weak/ he has tendency to make plays? V1 doesn't have much probably given that sizing and she's set the table for him.

    I don't understand your river check. Are you checking to induce or ch/ fold? It has to be one or the other with these stacks. Given her description I would go with door #2.

    I don't see the point in shipping. The only plausible worse flush she turned makes straight flush on river-910ss. She'll have Ks10s sometimes. I doubt she looks you up with anything else given action.
  • Acidhauss Posts: 291Subscriber
    I like betting the flop small against unsophisticated players OTF (say 20) to entice players to continue with smaller pairs, 5x and 7x so we have a very profitable turn barrel. It also has the advantage of avoiding a bloated pot if villain decides to raise most Ax as you say in your original post.
  • DSPoticDSPotic Posts: 28Subscriber
    On river, villain has K or else a bluff. She just checks behind T --she thinks it has showdown value, although I think you have only flushes in your range when you c/c flop and lead turn.
    What could she be bluffing with? Her flop bet is 1/3 pot and looks like an ace with a weak kicker. But does she call the c/raise--and your overcall--on the flop with A2-A8? Doesn't seem plausible. She must have AT+ and believe that you are both on draws or V2 is stabbing and you are drawing. When the spade hits the turn and you bet, she has to have AxK or AxT or else A8 (probably only the 3 suited combos). Does she really turn two pair into a bluff on the river? If so, you can call. If not, fold.
  • ZambrotAZambrotA Posts: 372Subscriber
    stayinschool said:
    I'd bet flop even with that read. Think we just give up too much checking here. If we were IP I could understand checking and going for a delayed c bet but just check calling with a draw OOP is really not something I want to be doing. I'm fine with the call. Would you ever 3 bet here?

    t
    So, I don't mind at all betting flop then i agree with you.
    I also don't mind the 3 bet as you asked me @stayinschool .
    Even if it "fails" i have ok equity to get it in as I'm not able to fold anymore if V comes over the top as I'm not deep enough to not get it in.

    I like my turn bet but if you mean like $160 with a lil bigger, I don't mind...

    OTR it's more a player dependent thing, i know her and who also knows thinks the same, she plays tight ABC and never see her going crazy/bluffing.

    I ended folding and she showed me the K ♠️ .

    Thank you

  • ZambrotAZambrotA Posts: 372Subscriber
    marseille said:
    Bet flop with plan to barrel depending how sticky they are. Seems like V1 can have a lot of hands; why do you think she is "A heavy"?


    I think she is A heavy bc she plays all the AJ+ and AXs. It's ~84 combos.

    3betting otf is definitely ok imo.

    River i decide to X/F bc i assume this V is not betting anything but the K ♠️ .
    I folded and fortunately she showed me the K ♠️ .
    Thank you @marseille
    Keep it up!!

  • ZambrotAZambrotA Posts: 372Subscriber
    Acidhauss said:
    I like betting the flop small against unsophisticated players OTF (say 20) to entice players to continue with smaller pairs, 5x and 7x so we have a very profitable turn barrel. It also has the advantage of avoiding a bloated pot if villain decides to raise most Ax as you say in your original post.
    I agree with betting otf being better option than checking.

    Thank you

  • ZambrotAZambrotA Posts: 372Subscriber
    DSPotic said:
    On river, villain has K or else a bluff. She just checks behind T --she thinks it has showdown value, although I think you have only flushes in your range when you c/c flop and lead turn.
    What could she be bluffing with? Her flop bet is 1/3 pot and looks like an ace with a weak kicker. But does she call the c/raise--and your overcall--on the flop with A2-A8? Doesn't seem plausible. She must have AT+ and believe that you are both on draws or V2 is stabbing and you are drawing. When the spade hits the turn and you bet, she has to have AxK or AxT or else A8 (probably only the 3 suited combos). Does she really turn two pair into a bluff on the river? If so, you can call. If not, fold.
    Ya she definitely had the K ♠️ as she showed it to me.
    This V is very unlikely bluffing here.
    About what a player would be bluffing here , i guess it has to be turning top pair or even 2 pair into a bluff but who does that??? It's rare and with this V almost Zero i assume.
    I folded.
    Thank you @DSPotic
    Keep it up!!
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