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Game and Seat Selection

JoeD73 Posts: 18Subscriber
edited April 2016 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Not sure if I am posting this in the correct area.

I am curious about peoples ideas on game and seat selection. I ask because I was playing a 2/5 game today and was stuck with horrible cards for the first full hour. I got better cards in hour 2 but I kept losing my hands to better hands. I thought about moving or even just leaving thinking it just wasn't my day. I ended up staying and getting felted after flopping the nuts, that were no longer the nuts by the river. I find myself angry not with my play, but with my reluctance to move or leave before that happened.

So I ask, what are your opinions on moving your seat or table when things are not going well? Would you have moved? When would you have moved and why?

Thanks!

Comments

  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    Well the idea that a certain seat is unlucky or changing seats will change what cards you get obviously isn't logical. However, its very possible that in your seat, because of the players around you, its going to be very hard for you to play and win money so in that case you would want to change seats. It's always advantageous to get the best seat at the best table in the room
  • FreeLunch Posts: 1,308Pro
    If you are not the kind of person who can take advantage of a bad image and win without getting great cards then yes moving might help reset your image but the advantage is likely to be small.

    If you find that your attitude changed because of your bad cards and that lead to you playing worse then changing might help by creating the illusion that you have some control, but long run its better to work on the core thought process so bad runs dont get to you. Three hours of bad cards is nothing.

    If any part of you thinks moving will help you get better cards than there is not much anyone here can do to help. Perhaps you need to buy a magic talisman you can pray to?
  • JoeD73 Posts: 18Subscriber
    Fair points FreeLunch.
    I'm here to learn so please help me out.
    How do I take advantage of my tight image at a full table with 6-7 LAGs and literally getting 7 high hands. When 90% of the pots are raised 5x pre flop with 3-4 callers.
    Working on my mental game.
    If you can't help me with this, then please point me towards the nearest talisman store so I can start praying, lol!
  • irwinbetirwinbet Posts: 383Subscriber
    You shouldn't game/table/seat change because you're getting bad cards or running bad. I think the only reason you should make a change is to put yourself in a better position to make more money.
    Move seats to get to the left of loose fishy players &/or have tight players on your left.
    Table change because there are a bunch of good players at your table but another table looks softer or there's no money on your table.
    Game change because you're uncomfortable playing the game/stake you're currently at or you're not in the right mindset to play as well as you need to beat this particular game. Game change because you can make more money playing a different game.
    If your session isn't going well & it's affecting you either take a break to regroup or quit & come back another day.
  • FreeLunch Posts: 1,308Pro
    JoeD73 said:

    How do I take advantage of my tight image at a full table with 6-7 LAGs and literally getting 7 high hands. When 90% of the pots are raised 5x pre flop with 3-4 callers.
    There is a bit of experimentation involved as you need to see if they really see you as a nit (and thus will fold too much to you) or if they are not paying any attention. If its the later (they ignore you), then just widen your value range in position and increase your raise size. For example if you have something like 77 on the button imagine you have aces and you are going to get called light and bet as large as you think you can get away with while reducing the field to one or two callers at most. If even that wont work just wait till you get very strong hands (and IMV thats 99_) and bet the hell out of them, let them call, and dont fold postflop. Its basicity short stack strategy because in effect even if you have 100bb you its really a shortstack game. And yes if you get nothing more then 7 high then you are folding a lot. But its a great time to learn everything possible about their game so observe everything, who limps what, who checks made hands, how and when people bluff. You may not be making money in the hands but you will be making money in the long run by learning how to exploit them when you do have better cards

    If they do adjust and fold too much to you then open up your range even wider in position but add a lot of limp behinds with the plan on firing pot or more if checked around to you. Basicly experiment in ways to steal more.

    In early position limp value range and add a lot of check raises to your post flop play (assuming they are agro post)
    by 1JoeD73
  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,302Subscriber
    Lots of points here. I will add this.


    Money rotates from right to left. looseness affects how many times, aggression affects how much.

    So if you have 3 loose aggressive (LA) players on your left, and 3 tight passives (TP) on your right you will not make much money. While you might get the TPs to fold often in the few hands they enter the LAs will abuse their position on you and make it difficult to play. Now there are strategies against this but it means that you have to wait for a hand and possibly be a little tricky. It is hard to hit hands in holdem.

    Now take the reverse..... a bunch of tight passives on left, a bunch of loose players on right. You don't lose much to the left and make all your money on the right. You get to play position more. So changing seats is a good idea? Yes.

    If your image sucks changing tables is a good idea? Yes. It resets you and resets your image.
    by 1JoeD73
  • basecrdshpbasecrdshp Posts: 113SubscriberProfessional
    irwinbet said:
    You shouldn't game/table/seat change because you're getting bad cards or running bad. I think the only reason you should make a change is to put yourself in a better position to make more money.
    Move seats to get to the left of loose fishy players &/or have tight players on your left.
    Table change because there are a bunch of good players at your table but another table looks softer or there's no money on your table.
    Game change because you're uncomfortable playing the game/stake you're currently at or you're not in the right mindset to play as well as you need to beat this particular game. Game change because you can make more money playing a different game.
    If your session isn't going well & it's affecting you either take a break to regroup or quit & come back another day.
    this

    If you have not already done so, you should figure out what texture table suits your skill set and strategy. It takes a different strategy to win at a crazy table where on average 5 see the flop as opposed to a tighter more passive table where the average seeing the flop is closer to 3. What type of table texture have you excelled at (run over so to speak) the passive type or the loosey goosy type. Look for that table texture.
    If you are on a table that suits your style and skill set, don't change but take an orbit off. Walk outside, walk to your car, to your room anything away from the poker room for an orbit (or 2). When you get back you may be surprised how it mentally feels like your starting a new session.
    by 1JoeD73
  • beauregard Posts: 1,592Subscriber
    If you watch a lot of tournament poker - esp final tables - you will see that there are times when a few seats seem to always get second best no matter what that player does. and the dude that typically wins the tournament had an uber hot seat.

    take Antonio Esfandiari's one drop win for example. at one point they showed the number of premium hands he held vs. his opponents - and he was catching a ton of great cards.

    the thing is playing 3 hours is nothing. it's what... 120 hands... if that?

    so what am I advocating? try to find the "magic" seat? no.
    while the cards don't know their master - and the next hand could be the start of a 40-hand winning or losing streak... changing seats won't guarantee anything.

    But your past results can influence other players to call you down lighter (when you're losing) and bluff-raise you (when you're bet/folding). And the fact that you bring this up tells you that you have... what advertisers call... "cognitive bias"

    you're noticing that your seat isn't performing like you're expecting (?) - and maybe your opponents are noticing too (I've seen very good regs get crushed by other regs when their hands become 2nd best a lot - which seemed to cause the rest of the table to call in situations where they normally would have folded). And maybe now - you're not playing your AK or draws as aggressively as you typically do... or not bluffing...

    Tendler's "The Mental Game of Poker" is a good book to read.

    so what's the solution?
    I don't see anything wrong with moving tables - or taking a seat that gives you better position on the more aggro players. Or moving down stakes. Or changing games. Or leaving.

    If you don't already have one - create a mental check list that you go through periodically to determine why you're in your game and why you should stay or leave.
    by 1JoeD73
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