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($2/5) Sticky spot with top 2

squishmytomatosquishmytomato Posts: 349SubscriberProfessional
edited April 2016 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Villain in hand is a 21 year old kid. He has been playing pretty snug thus far and hasn't really made any moves. About $850.

Hero has a great image and covers table. Looks down at A J from UTG+1 and makes it 20. Villain calls on button.

Flop: A J 8

Hero leads for 35. Villain quickly makes it 125. Hero thinks for moment and clicks it back to 275. Villain tanks for awhile, then moves all in.

Hero?
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Comments

  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    Think we can fold. Don't expect to see much besides 88, JJ here and huge combo draws and we don't do great against that range. Not a huge fan of the 3bet. Think we can just call and call down here.
  • pocket11s Posts: 104Subscriber
    stayinschool said:
    Think we can fold.
    stayinschool said:
    Think we can just call and call down here.
    I've never really grasped this school of thought. If him shoving after we 3bet makes us want to fold, why is call/call-ing him down a better option? I know you'd say his range is much narrower in the first scenario, whereas by call/call-ing him down, we keep his range wide, but how often is that the case in LLSNL? I think his range is pretty much similar in both cases i.e. set of 8s/Js/huge combo draws. If you think that's a nit's range here, why not just bet/fold the flop?

  • squishmytomatosquishmytomato Posts: 349SubscriberProfessional
    called into the clp podcast yesterday with this hand and bart said this is a must call - which I agree with. if we include 1/2 combo of a8 and 1/2 combo of j8 along with one monster draw combo, im over 40% equity against that range and only need to be good 32% of the time.

    unfortunately in the moment I thought this was 90% a set of 8s or jacks.

    I mucked and he showed j8.
  • pocket11s Posts: 104Subscriber
    Yeah, it was the podcast that got me here. Definitely calling too once you've CIB to $275.

    However, can you explain your reasoning to make it only $275 though? Were you 3betting small for information because that is what it seems you did. Asking because I'd just bomb it to $400+ because of the drawy nature of the board. By making it $275, you give him a great price to call with all of those draws.
  • squishmytomatosquishmytomato Posts: 349SubscriberProfessional
    pocket11s said:
    Yeah, it was the podcast that got me here. Definitely calling too once you've CIB to $275.

    However, can you explain your reasoning to make it only $275 though? Were you 3betting small for information because that is what it seems you did. Asking because I'd just bomb it to $400+ because of the drawy nature of the board. By making it $275, you give him a great price to call with all of those draws.
    I wanted to leave myself room to bet fold. at the time, I figured he would only come over the top with 3 combos of 88 and maybe 1/2 combo of jj that didn't 3! preflop. if he called - my plan was to jam any non heart turn with about a slightly smaller than pot size bet. in position - I would be much more likely to flat here.
  • dpbuckdpbuck Posts: 1,989SubscriberProfessional
    squishmytomato said:
    pocket11s said:
    Yeah, it was the podcast that got me here. Definitely calling too once you've CIB to $275.

    However, can you explain your reasoning to make it only $275 though? Were you 3betting small for information because that is what it seems you did. Asking because I'd just bomb it to $400+ because of the drawy nature of the board. By making it $275, you give him a great price to call with all of those draws.
    I wanted to leave myself room to bet fold. at the time, I figured he would only come over the top with 3 combos of 88 and maybe 1/2 combo of jj that didn't 3! preflop. if he called - my plan was to jam any non heart turn with about a slightly smaller than pot size bet. in position - I would be much more likely to flat here.
    Haven't listened to the Call In Show yet, but I'm not a fan of the 3-bet either. The only worse hands you are going to get value from (usually) are flush draws. By 3-betting, you're folding out the Ax hands that make up a lot of his range. In most cases, the turn will go check/check, then you'll be able to valuebet the river.

    As played, I'm interested to listen to the podcast, as I usually fold this without too much thought. I'm usually giving a "snug" player the benefit of the doubt that he wouldn't go crazy like this with a FD or 2P.

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