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Turn play question...

2/5 game well into the night. Effective stack size is 1100. Villain in the hand is a Washington Redskin player with wife/girlfriend sitting behind him. Villain def. has an understanding of the game, not a total moron, but has proven to be far too attached to draws/seemingly big hands without much regard to pot size, board runouts, etc... He's also raised 2 broadway cards a few times regardless of position. I was trying to just value the guy all night as I had a tough time getting him on a range. I haven't seem him lay anything down in the hour he's been at the table, but he hasn't shown a horrible bluff gone wrong etc...

V in UTG+1 raises to 20. 2 callers and I call in the co with Ah7h. Blinds fold and we see a flop (pot is 74) of 7d Jh Kc. Checked around. I thought about betting here, especially since the preflop raiser checked, but I didn't see myself getting through 3 players with my image, if the board had hit me, it would be hard for the other players to believe the bet since I would have most likely 3b in that situation. I think it would appear that I was repping a hand like KT, QJ, etc... and I don't think I get through everyone.

Turn is 3h. V bets 45 and 2 other players fold. Gets to me and I am debating a call or a raise. I opted for a call, mostly for the reasons listed above, and that I just couldn't figure out what this guys range was. I had him pegged for a either KT, QQ, AJ hand that I think he might have raised pf or a KJ/JJ/ hand that he was slowplaying. Thoughts?

River is the 7c. V bets 100, I raise to 250, he calls and mucks.


  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    If you were last to act I would have bet to protect your equity in the pot. Since V was in first pos and two players behind him checked they probably dont have a K. If the other players are better then they would have bet a J too. So most likely no one has a K or a J..

    Now if V calls you he could have a J and the 3 on the turn means he either has a J or has some kind of draw like QT , AT, AK, T9 etc... or a pair like 88-TT... I think there are still enough draws to get called by worse but I wouldnt make a really big bet since you said he never folds..

    With the 7 on the river I am absolutely betting but now I am betting really really big.. He either has a J and will hero call or has a busted draw that he wont. He just might have a K with a weak kicker but most likely not and very rarely he has JJ or KK. So Bombs away.. if he raises you know he has a slowplayed set that has filled up and you can fold..

  • Travisp33 Posts: 15Member
    I agree with Wendy for the most part. I think this type of villain can c/r the flop here sometimes, so Bet/fold here. This probably prevents him from leading the turn as well, but we have a solid 15 outs to the best hand when we turn a fd, so we can bet/call any time we turn a heart, a, or 7, bet/fold a lot else.

    As played, river bet sizing is an interesting question. 250 sounds optimal vs most villains. Since this guy is an athlete with his girlfriend watching, you might be able to get a massive over bet called, depending on your personality. Or maybe you just get your a$$ kicked lol...
  • regfish Posts: 34Member
    Just a note on preflop. Depending on my reads of the cold callers and their stack sizes I may 3bet this hand some percent of the time. I would imagine that not many people would do this but I think it works well. Reasons: villain and you have effective stacks over 200 bb. When stacks start to get deep like this I like to start 3betting more implied odds type hands that make strong 5 card type hands along with the normal 3bet hands AA, KK, etc . A7s isn't the greatest hand as I would rather suited connectors but I think it still works ok. People that fit villains description (semi competent recreation type players) just won't 4bet you here without like AA, KK, or QQ and maybe not even QQ. They like never 4bet with AK, always just call. If the cold callers are straightforward, not terrible players, and don't have like 150 plus bb stacks then you don't lose much knocking them out of the pot. You take back initiative and build a bigger pot that your gonna win a bunch when IP (your trying in this spot to play non showdown poker). Also in cases like this when you hit a big hand you can win that much bigger of a pot. People like this usually play straightforward in 3bet pot so if he flats with like AK or AQ and it comes like 224 you could prob. just bet and take it as he won't likely give you the resistance like he may in a single raised pot. If you do get lucky (kind of like you did) and make trip 7's, a flush or a straight people never fold to you because they have you on big pairs or high cards. Whereas if this was a single raised pot even recreational players get away from hands all the time because subconsciously they are putting you on more a middling range. A 3bet here is real villain, image and gameflow dependent so I would use it with caution but in the right spots it can really be useful.
  • grindbler Posts: 131Member
    against this type of player, a rec gambler, I want to have more SDV if i'm going to barrel the turn. (a better pair?)
    as played, his range has to include some FDs which we have crushed, and want to continue. do we know if he would tend to bet a turned draw into a field that checked the flop??
    Also, it includes Js and some Ks which we have decent equity against, and we certainly have the implied odds to just call.
    ya, i wouldnt get to into repping a hand vs. a player who hasnt proved to me he can hand read in general, and in that case we would be repping pretty much what we have.
    I like the river raise. WP.
  • phatsuit Posts: 26Member
    Was it RG3, alf Morris ????
  • CatharinaNilsson said

    Was it RG3, alf Morris ????
    I was sworn to secrecy. The table didn't know who he was and I said something to him quietly as he was leaving. He smiled, shook my hand and got my email address and later had the team send me an email and I got his jersey....which I guess is cool. I'm not a super football fan and have never owned a team jersey, but what the hell.

    He is an offensive player that is on the field a ton....and not RG3
  • ILYA Posts: 129Subscriber
    Looks like you took the worst possible line with your hand.
    You called with a drawing hand in position, flopped a pair, got checked to by PFR and two others, and checked behind?! You have to bet your 7 on the flop cause that's quite possibly the best hand at the moment, which needs protection against 3 people.
    So the PFR bets turn and you call probably drawing to 2 outs vs AJ, 5 outs vs QQ , and dead vs KK. This guy has a hand, and at this stage I think you need to just fold. Unless you attempt a very aggressive 2 street bluff line, which doesn't seem preferred here.
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