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Villains flop cr range when he shoves

Fred Posts: 137Subscriber
Hero just moved to this table
Villain unknown assumed rec player as drinking beer with a friend seems to be having a good time.

£1-£2

Villain limps utg next player calls hero AA raises to £15 3 people call 2 of which have position on us.

Flop £63 457
Hero CB £30 (comments on sizing welcome) folds to villain who moves all in for £110 so £80 more to call so I called.

I put him on.... 44,55,66,77,45s,67s,68s this gives us 28.9% equity so we can call. If I add a couple more hands like 88, 67s our equity is 39%

Would you say the first range I put him on is too tight/too wide or is this pretty much it? He may even have 99,1010. What's your opinion?


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Comments

  • beauregard Posts: 1,592Subscriber
    edited April 2016
    "unknown" V has an unknown range

    this is where we look for clues such as... how he handles his chips, how he talks about hands at table (if he talks), how he stacks chips or bets chips, how he looks at and mucks his cards, his age, appearance, table demeanor... is he nervous or calm?
    against "unknowns" it's never bad to ask a question in this situation and see how they respond... or how they don't
    against an unknown - he can have you on AA or AK - and play accordingly.
    but in our games - limp/calling pre from utg and then check/raising all in on the flop in nearly always a set... period. Overpairs JJ+ would have raised pre. And 66, 88-TT would have bet the flop.
    the only hand you beat for now that might take a check/shove line from utg is 66. but that's a line that a seasoned player would make - not a rec player.

    btw - if he's got 45s, then he's also got 56s. and if he's got 68, he's also got 75.
  • dpbuckdpbuck Posts: 2,009Subscriber
    Only 55 BBs deep, I'm not folding here.

    I disagree with @beauregard that villain usually donks the flop with 88-TT. I have no problem putting that in his range, along with more 6x type hands (A6, K6s, etc). More than enough to give us the equity we need. Remember, this is 1/2, so players do weird stuff, especially those sitting on a short stack and drinking.

    As for your flop sizing, how deep are the other villains in the hand? Your bet seems small, but could be right if everyone is as short as villain.
  • Fred Posts: 137Subscriber
    The other players are good and deep and have me covered about £450 so 225bb I bet half pot so I can get away from this hand kind of cheaply if raised from the deeper stacks.

    As a side note When I see good players raise and it goes multiway they tend to CB smaller % of the pot than when it goes 2-3 way?
  • dpbuckdpbuck Posts: 2,009Subscriber
    Fred said:
    As a side note When I see good players raise and it goes multiway they tend to CB smaller % of the pot than when it goes 2-3 way?
    All about board texture. Smaller is right on dry flops - want people to peel with less than top pair. But on a board like this, any 6x and 88+ is going to peel almost regardless of sizing, so you can bet larger.
  • beauregard Posts: 1,592Subscriber
    dpbuck said:

    I disagree with @beauregard that villain usually donks the flop with 88-TT. I have no problem putting that in his range, along with more 6x type hands (A6, K6s, etc).
    @dpbuck - I think it depends on the V. but against an unknown from utg who limped... I find it weird that he'd be shoving against the pfr with just a SD. most Vs in lower stakes are not gambling from utg. and not shoving without a very big hand.
    but you're right - in 1/2 strange things can happen.
    Fred said:
    I bet half pot so I can get away from this hand kind of cheaply if raised from the deeper stacks.
    I'm not a big fan of the less than 1/2 pot c-bet. it looks weak. And against a more aggro opponent - it can signal to him that you're not committed to the pot - asking him to raise and take it away from you.
    so in this case - it's possible you still have the best hand - but appear to be c-betting with AK - and V just has a pair. but it's really impossible to know without more info on your image and V's.
    I think your logic here is faulty. You're looking for an excuse to fold instead of looking for a way to get value from a very big hand. consequently, your actions look weak and you may be inducing your opponents to make a move on you.
    the "why" of your bet here is going to hurt your game in the long run. the "why" your betting here should be for value - not to get information.
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