Welcome.

Take a tour. Enjoy some free sample content.

How it works

Free Video: CLP Video No. 287: Home Game Bart Reviews His Splashy At $1-$3 Deep Part 2

Free Podcast: CLP Podcast No. 54: Time Warp And Turn Value
New to Crush Live Poker?

185 BBs deep limped pot (Podcast 5/3/16)

BartBart Posts: 5,897AdministratorLeadPro
Commerce $5-10 9:30PM Friday night.

BB in hand is gambly weekend Lag Korean. He just coolered someone about 20 minutes ago and sits with $3000. Hero has $1850 to start hand. Table is very good and passive.


Mp1 limps, CO limps, Hero over limps BTN w limp J♠ 8♠ Sb, BB complete and check.

$50 FLOP: T♥ 9♣ 7♣

Checked to hero, $40, SB $140 with $300 left. BB cold calls. Folded to Hero who 3!s to $450. SB folds, tank folds. BB thinks for a while and calls.

$1100 TURN: K♠

Check..Hero?
Tagged:

Comments

  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    I feel like we have to bet again. Too many FD's and two pairs to get value from. He defiantly has all combos of QJ but I don't think we can check back.

    I think we can possibly bet fold like 450. IDK i would have to know the guy better. If we be and get shoved on I think its QJ a lot but we have a J blocker and we don't really ever have a better hand here. Unless I'm sure it's only ever QJ, which IDK how I could, I think we have to bet GII.

    If he shoves he could have 77, Kxcc, 8xcc, Axcc, 86. Like he probably doesn't have all combos of all of those but think our had is just too strong to do anything but get it in even in a limped pot.
  • BartBart Posts: 5,897AdministratorLeadPro
    Dude, I wasn't talking about bet folding..just looking for sizing, lol.
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    Bart said:
    Dude, I wasn't talking about bet folding..just looking for sizing, lol.
    Ok good haha. I just got smashed online so i'm seeing monsters under the bed a little haha.

    I'd still go 450 shove. There is some argument for going bigger to get value from draws and pair plus draws that won't call river. I guess like 600 shove might be better. IDK I feel like the EV of 450 shove, 600 shove is fairly close. I prefer 600.

    *actually 600 is better for sure. Being able to shove for less that 1K on the river just gets called a lot more IMO.
  • BartBart Posts: 5,897AdministratorLeadPro
    I think the stacks are super awkward that's why I posted the hand. If I go 600 and a club comes and he shoves am I folding for 800 at the end?

    Seems like that K brings in many gut shots on the turn. I was actually thinking about shoving now...
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    Bart said:
    I think the stacks are super awkward that's why I posted the hand. If I go 600 and a club comes and he shoves am I folding for 800 at the end?

    Seems like that K brings in many gut shots on the turn. I was actually thinking about shoving now...
    I would probably fold on a club we have a pretty good number of flushes we can call with. Some clubs that brought in certain one liners there is a chance I would call.

    I thought about shoving and it's interesting. I just don't think I know the guy well enough to know if he will call light enough to make it best. Based on your description, gambly guy on draw heavy board, it's definitely seems possible but i'll leave it up to you. And I agree that stacks are awkward but I don't think betting 600 and leaving 800 is that awkward. I mean club only comes 20% of the time and even when it doesn't he doesn't always have it.

    If we can get a shove called reasonably wide it's best for sure I just don't know the guy so I couldn't say if I thought we could or not.
  • maphacks Posts: 2,008Subscriber
    edited April 2016
    Hero bets 700 and calls a shove.

    Sizing can be smaller or bigger depending on his mood at the time

    If he is bad enough to call gutshot+fd or pair +fd /pair+oesd against a shove, that's proabably the best option. I would hate to get pair+oesd to fold but that's proabably thr smaller part of his range.
  • Rocketman74Rocketman74 Posts: 451Subscriber
    Can we get a probable range for a "weekend LAG Korean" out of the BB in a limped pot after he check cold calls and then calls a 3bet?
  • DrSpace Posts: 716Subscriber
    If his medium stronger hands call a shove then do so. The board is great for bb limping range in that he can have a lot of good hands. Given the action he could conceivably have some strong hands that continued flop this way and will definitely call given the description of the villain. Your image supports bluffing this way so it shouldn't look ridiculously nutted.
  • aaron Posts: 498Subscriber
    Option 1: Bet small to Induce -- Vs a passive player who's probably not going to make any moves and given the strength of your line this is not a good option. If he's super aggro lag then we could consider this as something to look into

    Option 2: Half to 2/3 pot or $550-$750 -- Gets calls a lot more often than option 3. Makes it difficult to fold rivers

    Option 3: Shove $1400

    Range Analysis: a) FD heavy with a ton of gutters/pairs (Ac-5c are the only fd's that aren't combo draws)
    b) Pr + strt draws
    c) random 8x no pr - small %
    d) 2 pr - small %

    *If $800 gets called 75% of the time and $1400 gets called greater than 43% then a shove is better. Delving into these break-even percentages in a spreadsheet I found these matchups kind of interesting. Following assumes calling percentage for one bet size and the corresponding Break-Even % for a shove (i.e villian needs to call shove x% to make shoving BE compared to alternative bet size)

    Bet Call %Shove BE Call %
    800 50% 29%
    800 60% 34%
    800 75% 43%
    550 90% 35%

    **I'm probably going w/ $800 sizing b/c I think villian may find a fold w/ a big combo draw for a shove. I'd have to be in the spot to gauge how much of a gambler we're dealing with. I do think if we make it $800 and flush comes in we may be able to fold as crazy as that sounds.



  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    I definitely lean towards putting in more money in on the turn if possible because there are so many pair plus draws.
  • PocketAceTrader782 Posts: 439Subscriber
    I would bet around $450 or so. If called you can put him in on the river on a non-club.

    Carmine
  • iamallin Posts: 1,173SubscriberProfessional
    Lol @ gambly lag ever checking qj to us on such a wet board.

    Ship it. Many of his flush draws will now have a gutshot. Its never a bad result to get him to fold his equity which should be around 25% if he has a combo draw.

    And he might make a gambly call anyway which is still good news.
  • fishcake Posts: 952Subscriber
    I think this is a shove given villain's description.
  • Nicholas31 Posts: 50Subscriber
    I know plenty of Laggy Koreans who are almost always shoving over like $350 here thinking their FD+Gutter is the nuts, so if said villain is decently aggro I kind of like the bet small to induce line. Obviously very villain dependent though.
  • carru036 Posts: 173Subscriber
    Tough cause we want to bet big to get maximum value from flush draws but a lot of top pair hands will fold if we bomb. We have a 1.4x pot sized bet left I'd bet around 700-800 to get max value from flush draws and 2 pairs, sets, etc. before the river gets more scary.
  • PokerDuder Posts: 58Subscriber
    Hey Bart,

    Any reason why you didn't pot it on the flop? Also, would you ever consider overbetting this flop? Say like $70 or $80?

    thanks
  • dpbuckdpbuck Posts: 2,004Subscriber
    edited May 2016
    I can't imagine villain ever has just Kx or Tx with this line (unless coupled with a flush draw). So we don't necessarily need to be targeting a size that keeps those hands on the hook. Against this villain, I think this is a shove. All his flush draws, two pair, and pair+straight draw hands are calling regardless of sizing. Bombs away!
  • BartBart Posts: 5,897AdministratorLeadPro
    Results are in the podcast this week, second to last hand. I think I raised an interesting question in the episode as well. How often do we have to consider allowing opponent to stay in the hand and being bluffed off the best hand if a club comes in?
  • coolfish7 Posts: 29SubscriberProfessional
    One other aspect that wasn't explicitly discussed was denying your opponent correct pot odds. For the combo draw case where your opponent has 15 outs, he only needs 2-1 to make the turn call correct. So you actually need to bet more than pot to deny him the proper odds to make the call. And if he's calling with the hands you have beat anyway (2 pair and sets) then a turn shove is clearly the right play since you get to make him make equity mistakes with both his made hands and draws.
  • BartBart Posts: 5,897AdministratorLeadPro
    coolfish7 said:
    One other aspect that wasn't explicitly discussed was denying your opponent correct pot odds. For the combo draw case where your opponent has 15 outs, he only needs 2-1 to make the turn call correct. So you actually need to bet more than pot to deny him the proper odds to make the call. And if he's calling with the hands you have beat anyway (2 pair and sets) then a turn shove is clearly the right play since you get to make him make equity mistakes with both his made hands and draws.
    Yeah but I already have a straight so his equity is worse as his straight outs are only for a chop.

    Bart
Sign In or Register to comment.