Welcome.

Take a tour. Enjoy some free sample content.

How it works

Free Video: CLP Video No. 287: Home Game Bart Reviews His Splashy At $1-$3 Deep Part 2

Free Podcast: CLP Podcast No. 54: Time Warp And Turn Value
New to Crush Live Poker?

How to Deal with a Permanent Button Straddler When you're In the Blinds?

[Deleted User] Posts: 0
edited June 2016 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Played at the Wynn in Las Vegas and they allow button straddle.. with a twist. So preflop UTG is first to act. It goes around til the button.... and then get this... if action didn't change, meaning it hasn't been raised above the straddle amount - then the action skips button and the blinds have to act BEFORE the button! Really weird.

Anyway, I played with a guy who straddled every button and I was in the BB. When it was raised before it got to him I knew what to do. But when it wasn't and it often wasn't, I didn't.

I tried just calling the straddle. If I didn't have a hand good enough to raise but didn't want to fold it then I'd just call the straddle then the button would in 90% of cases pop it because I gave him an indication that my hand wasn't strong and I had the unenviable of calling his raise with a marginal hand OOP or donating the straddle amount.

I tried folding to the extra straddle amount and then I realized I was folding way too much and bleeding my BB to him.

It seemed like I couldn't win.

What would you do?
Tagged:
«1

Comments

  • Arenzano Posts: 1,399Subscriber
    Fold your marginal hands
    Raise your better hands
    Find another table where your button villain isn't straddling the button every orbit
    Don't feel compelled to defend your bb
  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,433Subscriber
    If the stacks are deep it shouldn't be a concern. If you consider how often you have a hand and actually get paid from the blinds it is tiny in comparison what you are folding. Yes it is annoying as fuck as his straddle increases SPRs.

    From what I have seen in my own experiences... the guys that straddle the button and raise often are players who don't fold, and like to bluff. So it is tough to play vs them. Calling their raise kind of sucks also because if you call others might call. BUT....

    if lets say he raises often and CBs multiple streets way too much you can limp call with a good hand that plays well heads up and let him value bet himself to bet when you hit if he plays like a maniac.

    If he, and the table, are folders you can limp reraise once or twice in a session with trash and get away with it.

    One thing you can do is sit on their raight and REALLY put the 3b squeeze on them. Or again limp call with a good hand. You will have relative position throughout the hand vs the field.

    You can look as straddlers as paying for your rake also.

    Personally I hate it because I like seeing as many flops as I can with high SPRs then using my post flop skills to make money.
  • MSK Posts: 53Subscriber
    Fuzzypup said:
    Yes it is annoying as fuck as his straddle increases SPRs.
    you mean to write decrease?

  • maphacks Posts: 2,009Subscriber
    edited June 2016
    if there are two limpers or more I would complete alot not expecting BU to still ISO raise. if he still does, complete less shit and more good hands and go for some limp reraises. we don't always need a nutted hand to go for the reraise. against one limper I would ISO a lot myself...openlimpers are fish 95% + and I don't mind playing trash even OOP against them. if you feel uncomfortable folding a lot is also good. it's 9handed after all and giving up the BB is not a big deal.

    just to get this correct: let's say you complete and BU then raises, are you in BB first to act ?? (assuming SB folded)
  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,433Subscriber
    MSK said:
    Fuzzypup said:
    Yes it is annoying as fuck as his straddle increases SPRs.
    you mean to write decrease?

    yes I meant decreases. Thanks.

  • the_dude_abides Posts: 331Subscriber
    If this were to happen to me, I think I would limp reraise often, mostly with value hands. When i say value hands, i am talking a relatively wide range because its value relative to straddler who sounds like they are raising pretty wide. Often some limpers will have better, but will fold most of the time.

    The goal would be to induce a spaz from the straddler. I would probably tighten my range for limp reraising over time to maximize the chance that he spazzed when I have a premium.

    Not sure that this is the optimal adjustment, but that is what I would probably do. Curious if anyone thinks it's spewy.
  • BananaStandBananaStand Posts: 1,455Troll
    What the heck-a-lo? So sometimes you act before the button, and sometimes you act after, depending on whether or not a player in between you both raises? Screw that game.

    Sounds like a scam to jack up the pre-flop pot size and maximize rake. Also sounds like almost everyone is going to be acting twice pre-flop, which opens up the doors for all kinds of evil stuff. I would think it would be pretty easy for two players to collude and isolate a third player in a huge pot.

    There's like 40 other poker rooms within a mile of that place. Pick one that doesn't play with this garbage rule
  • MSK Posts: 53Subscriber
    not sure if it's a scam as it's the same rules there in the time games as well. No one could explain it but once you got used to it, it was ok. It just sucks in terms of holding up the game a ton and people not knowing where the action is. So there is like the only one thing the RIO does better than Wynn.

    @James, I like that thinking and it's a great opportunity to mix in 66,77,88 into the limp/reraising range and cbetting most flops. And yes, I liket the plan to narrow this range as the session continues to induce spazz.
  • pokertime Posts: 2,180Subscriber
    BananaStand said:
    What the heck-a-lo? So sometimes you act before the button, and sometimes you act after, depending on whether or not a player in between you both raises? Screw that game.

    Sounds like a scam to jack up the pre-flop pot size and maximize rake. Also sounds like almost everyone is going to be acting twice pre-flop, which opens up the doors for all kinds of evil stuff. I would think it would be pretty easy for two players to collude and isolate a third player in a huge pot.

    There's like 40 other poker rooms within a mile of that place. Pick one that doesn't play with this garbage rule
    It seems like the whole point is so the straddle is still last to act but they should just start the action with SB. Screwy for sure. I used to worry about this thinking I'm bleeding blinds but it's not as bad as you think. Just raise with value hands and fold the trash. Calling and having him pop you and you then fold is worse than just folding th blind. Your losing more that way. Ultimate if there aren't some big spots at the table you should just move tables. It's possible this guy is the spot and he pays you ten fold of what you lost in blinds if you can just wait him out!

  • MSK Posts: 53Subscriber
    also, nits hate the btn straddle. First thing I try to do when in Vegas in any game, is making the btn straddle mandatory and see who complains.
  • pokertime Posts: 2,180Subscriber
    MSK said:
    also, nits hate the btn straddle. First thing I try to do when in Vegas in any game, is making the btn straddle mandatory and see who complains.
    I would say that's a bad plan. The button straddle is wasted money. You already have position and your allowing the blinds to play better since they have to act first. In the game being described it's different but usually the SB acts first. I only straddle if it's a table full of recs who bring it up and all want to do it. Then I'm hurting myself being the lone hold out.
  • [Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited June 2016
    maphacks said:

    just to get this correct: let's say you complete and BU then raises, are you in BB first to act ?? (assuming SB folded)
    Uhuh.

  • [Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited June 2016
    BananaStand said:
    Pick one that doesn't play with this garbage rule
    I also think the rule is garbage. I'm wondering if the way it's set up actually makes it +EV to straddle ATC OTB. It's the aspect of making blinds act first preflop if it hasn't been raised that makes it so evil. The normal button straddle does not allow that.

  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,433Subscriber
    JapanTown said:
    BananaStand said:
    Pick one that doesn't play with this garbage rule
    I also think the rule is garbage. I'm wondering if the way it's set up actually makes it +EV to straddle ATC OTB. It's the aspect of making blinds act first preflop if it hasn't been raised that makes it so evil. The normal button straddle does not allow that.

    You cant take advantage of it if the # of limpers is enough vs folds to preflop raise vs frequency of bluff raising. But then again I say you can also take advantage of someone who does it in the same way without posting.

    I call it "someone paid my rake" bet.
  • Fuzzypup said:

    You cant take advantage of it if the # of limpers is enough vs folds to preflop raise vs frequency of bluff raising.
    Translation please.

  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,433Subscriber
    edited June 2016
    Ok 2/5 game.

    There are constantly 4 limpers not including your post OTB or the blinds = $27,
    If you can raise $25 and get people to fold 100% of the time every 3rd time you straddle OTB you make money.

    Now it is more complex than that and more variables are involved but that is how generally it works.

    You need limpers. you need a high fold percentage preflop to a specific sized raise. You need to do it frequently enough to compensate for the straddle and limpers.

    So in the example you are risking $5 x 3 = $15 but on the 3rd time you do it you raise $25 and win $27 when no one calls. So now the $15 netted $27-$15 = $17.

    The complexities come when people call you, when someone is paying attention and 3bs, etc.

    But at the same time you might also get a playable hand in a larger pot OTB. Or a premium hand where someone plays back at you or makes a call they shouldn't.

    It is not easy to do but you have position during all points of the hand. You really need to understand your table.

    didn't say I do it but I know someone who does so successfully.
  • irwinbetirwinbet Posts: 383Subscriber
    It is unusual but one thing nice about it is that it helps reduce people from acting out of turn, which is a common occurrence during a normal OTB straddle where action starts in the SB.
    If I was in the blinds during his straddle I would actually be fine with him straddling since I get to see everyone else act first.
    As you stated, it's easier to play if there's a raise before him. When there isn't a raise, make adjustments to how he plays just like you adjust to every other player at the table. Don't get too caught up in defending/stealing blinds in a cash game, especially if you're uncomfortable with how to proceed if called or raised. There are easier & more profitable spots to make $.
    If you're uncomfortable with it, get a seat change or table change if necessary.
  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,433Subscriber
    With a button straddle the SB acts 1st.
  • irwinbetirwinbet Posts: 383Subscriber
    I know that's how a normal OTB straddle works. But frequently the person UTG will act before the blinds because they don't realize there's a OTB straddle. Multiple dealers in my room have said they wish they would take away the OTB straddle because of this.
  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,433Subscriber
    Seen it, done it lol
Sign In or Register to comment.