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$2/$5: Was This a Good Checkraise?

$1000 eff. Fish limps MP2, V opens CO to $15, I call in BB with J T , limper calls.

Flop: Q J 8 Pot $47 Checks to CO who bets $20, I checkraise to $60 with middle pair + gutter.

V is a tighter, middle-aged guy.

Was this a good CR and why/why not?
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Comments

  • PBJTIME Posts: 336Subscriber
    I don't like the check raise here. If he is a tighter MAG, your flat call will freeze him if he is c-bet bluffing and you can take less risk to win the hand knowing that your hand is best when the turn goes check check. Also, if you get called by your small flop check raise (he has to call $40 to win $110), what hands are you beating and what is your plan for future streets? If you're turning your hand into a bluff, I'd size larger. If your raise was for value, what worse hand is a "tighter, MAG" calling with?
  • Romans120 Posts: 18Subscriber
    edited June 2016
    Are we raising for value, protection, or as a bluff? So far there is nothing about V sizing that makes me think they have a strong hand so I'm wondering what your thoughts were on the purpose of the bet.
  • BananaStandBananaStand Posts: 1,455Troll
    Very bad spot to check raise. Your hand has equity and showdown value. Better hands are not folding. Worse hands aren't calling.
  • Dab44 Posts: 408Subscriber
    I dont hate it. I would use a larger sizing like 70 to 75, its a semi-bluff. Reasons i dont hate it is because you are deep enough & you have blockers to nut hands (910, JJ). Its not a terrible play, considering our equity, blockers, fold equity, and the fact we wont have enough showdown value to win at the river. If you choose this play, you will have to bomb most turns.
  • ConlanMa Posts: 181Pro
    It's probably not a terrible checkraise from a value/equity standpoint. It's a slam dunk call though from an EV standpoint and I'm not sure what you want to accomplish with a checkraise (i.e. my guess is the EV for calling is significantly higher than raising). You'll end up getting called with Qx+ at this stake on the flop and have to bluff later streets to fold off better hands. Depending on whether the opponent gets aggressive with his made hands and draws, he may also blow you off your equity.

    That said, the one justification I could see where this may be very profitable is if the opponent is scared money with all his one pair hands and will fold on flop or turn too much.
  • maphacks Posts: 1,992Subscriber
    if you empty the clip yes.
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    Really do not like it. Hand far to good to turn into a bluff. If we call down and miss it is not a terrible hand to use as a river raise depending on how the board runs out but don't love it
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    ConlanMa said:
    It's probably not a terrible checkraise from a value/equity standpoint. It's a slam dunk call though from an EV standpoint and I'm not sure what you want to accomplish with a checkraise (i.e. my guess is the EV for calling is significantly higher than raising). You'll end up getting called with Qx+ at this stake on the flop and have to bluff later streets to fold off better hands. Depending on whether the opponent gets aggressive with his made hands and draws, he may also blow you off your equity.

    That said, the one justification I could see where this may be very profitable is if the opponent is scared money with all his one pair hands and will fold on flop or turn too much.
    ^ prefect evaluation. c/r can be very profitable against certain people but need a very specific villain for it to be more profitable than calling. I think we need more of a read than just "Old tight guy" to say that for sure
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    In terms of finding bluffs here it is hard. I actually think 89, while a similar hand, is quite a better option. Something like the 3 97s with BDFD seems reasonable. ATs with BDFD seem good too. On this type of board it is hard to find good semi-bluffs as almost all of the hands that have equity to improve have SDV so we are going to have to turn some SDV into a bluff. However, I think JT has too much SDV to do that with.
  • ACK Posts: 428Subscriber
    edited June 2016
    I think calling is the best option. If you check raise off suit combo's on this flop then you will check raising too often and this hand has a fair bit of showdown value.

    Perhaps hands like 98 with backdoor flush or A9 with BDFD are better hands to check raise. These hands have a bit less showdown value but a bit more barreling equity.
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