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TPTK vs competent player 2/5

FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,433Subscriber
edited June 2016 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Image is neutral, villain's image is neutral and hasn't gotten out of line. Villian is tight, seems to play competently but almost all regs I meet that seem decent usually end up making fundamental mistakes... Eff stacks $650

Folds to me in UTG+2 Hero raise $20 A:s:K:h:, BUT calls, SB (big fish) folds, BB (big station) calls

POT $60
FLOP: K 6 3 BB X, Hero bet $50, BUT calls, BB folds after hemming and hawing

POT $160
TURN: 9 Hero bets $90, BUT raises $180, Hero?

There is $390 left to play and pot currently is $330 before we call. We have the Kh.

#1 Your play?
#2 If you didn't have the Kh what is your play?
#3 could you have played this hand differently vs a seemingly competent player.



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Comments

  • Letmewin1 Posts: 1,238Member
    edited June 2016
    Kinda sticky spot, I don't think you're folding many mid flushes with a shove nor do I think you're getting any more $ if another H hits and he could have all but flushes, you could try to call and jam river pairing cards but eff. will be shallow getting to the river and he needs to be willing to fold big hands.


    1) fold
    2) would rather bet fold non H K maybe c/c in this spot depending on sizing
    3) read above.
  • BananaStandBananaStand Posts: 1,455Troll
    edited June 2016
    I feel like this is a case for the pre-flop police. This hand is a perfect illustration of why an SPR of 10 is horrible for top-pair hands. I'd be raising $35-$45 with this hand. Now I know what you're thinking...."But BananaStand, we'll only get called by AA/KK, or more likely, everyone will just fold and we win $7 bucks"

    That's what will happen the first time you do it. Maybe the second. But once you lay down the law and let people know that a flop costs 8x, their ranges WILL widen pretty friggen quickly.

    $40 pre-flop and two calls sets up an SPR of 5, if only one guy calls, SPR is 7.5 which is still far preferable to 10. At these stacks and stakes, the game is really won and lost pre-flop. We can debate this turn decision all day, but playing expert poker means avoiding this kind of gnarly spot altogether.

    If you really don't believe the beefy pre-flop raise approach won't work for you, then another option is to limp/re-raise. It's not just for Aces anymore. I believe this is a dangerously under-used move in games where players make gigantic pre-flop mistakes. Having it limp around is not a bad thing either. If you can't get a single digit SPR, then you prefer it to be over 20. 10-15 always leads to spots like this. So often that someone named Baluga decided to just settle these forum debates once and for all by decreeing that you should just fold every single time. You'll make fewer bad folds than than good folds
  • BananaStandBananaStand Posts: 1,455Troll
    PS - as played, check the turn. You aren't committed and you should just be trying to realize your showdown value
  • maphacks Posts: 2,009Subscriber
    edited June 2016
    I would check/call turn with hearts. seems hard to get solid villains whole stack if he has less than AK here. if he bets we call and evaluate river, usually fold. don't think regs at 5-5 turn enough made hands into bluffs so I simply exploitivly fold more or less my whole range on a blank river after check/calling turn.
    if for some reason I think he his that good, I will also check/call turn and NOT fold rivers.

    bet/folding turn without K .

    AP, I probably would make a ridicolous laydown. his minraise smells like nutflush too much. I have very rarely played any decent regs at 5-5 so I think they just have it here and pray you call their minraise
  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,433Subscriber
    BananaStand said:
    If you can't get a single digit SPR, then you prefer it to be over 20. 10-15 always leads to spots like this.
    I 100% agree with this statement and I try to target those SPRs. It's very difficult to target low SPRs in a loose cash game and there are other variables that affect the play. The largest issue is that if you bet and are put to a decision for your stack usually the opponents play is close to optimal even if it is accidentally and your decision is difficult. An SPR is 1-2 is fairly optimal vs many as you get value for a hand like AK. I didn't play this hand but I wanted to open a discussion on what Banana hit upon. Also I wanted to see if I could make the pretty suits come up in the hands
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