Welcome.

Take a tour. Enjoy some free sample content.

How it works

Free Video: CLP Video No. 287: Home Game Bart Reviews His Splashy At $1-$3 Deep Part 2

Free Podcast: CLP Podcast No. 54: Time Warp And Turn Value
New to Crush Live Poker?

Is calling down your short stack when you think you're behind ever justified? A case study.

pokerguy1977 Posts: 37Member
edited July 2016 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
2/5 NL

Hero has been struggling all night. Down to his last $200 (roughly). Yes I know many readers will say I need to re-buy, but I choose not to play that way. Sometimes life isn't all bad being on the short stack (when I don't have much to risk I tend to be more aggressive pre-flop and tend to get paid off more easily by opponents being more apt to call your value type of hands as they are not scared of you). On many occasions I have turned a stack of less than $200 into a stack of $1,000+ within a couple hours.

Anyway, a very loud but friendly young white guy (V1) sits down to my immediate left and buys in for about $500. He immediately starts telling everyone he just wants to make some money to use at the strip clubs. I should stress that V1 seems more like the proverbial friendly college frat boy (though he was in his late 20s)..and did not seem to be on drugs or otherwise acting strangely. He was there obviously to have a good time and make some quick cash. I say nothing to him as I'm in a very bad mood and steaming from being so card dead and whiffing everything all night. First hand he plays he raises big with AK and takes it down, showing his A on the Axx flop. Our hand begins about 5 minutes later.

Hero in BB with KhJh. V1 is UTG and limps. V2 is very loose-aggressive player who raises to $20 pre-flop. One caller in late position, I call in BB, V1 calls in UTG.

Pot $80. Flop TQK rainbow (no hearts). Hero leads out for $35 (here I was hoping to get value from V2 who will call with any two cards and would have called me down had he hit any piece of the flop). V1 immediately raises to $115. Folds back to me. In the heat of the moment, my thinking was "There's no way in Hell I'm laying down this hand. Too many outs. Period." So I called...knowing full well he'd put me all in on the turn and being ok with that.

Turn garbage. I check, he puts me all-in. I call. River bricks and he shows 9J.

My thoughts now: What could I have really beaten on the flop given the action? Shouldn't I have known I was behind? Of course I had a decent hand, and there is nothing wrong with being an aggressor in such situations, or betting for value, or calling hoping to get implied odds on later streets if I improve..especially by hitting the straight if he has two pairs or a set. But all I was doing here was basically calling down my stack with one-pair. I had 32% chance to hit a straight..but shouldn't I have realized he probably already had a straight? Shouldn't I have also known that a player like V1 would not have raised with a one-pair type of hand? How would readers have played this type of hand while being big stacked?

I know this is a low-stakes hand for most readers, but any input would be appreciated. Thank you.
Tagged:

Comments

  • DonkieRon Posts: 577Subscriber
    You nailed it in last paragraph.Sounds like Tilt if you are able to rationalize all you did wrong after the fact.
  • BananaStandBananaStand Posts: 1,455Troll
    I think there is enough possibility of getting paid off by JT, QJ, AQ, AT, and maybe even a K9 that you played the hand fine. 40BB's deep you flopped plenty of equity to justify going broke. I think where you really went wrong was playing in the first place.

    I'm guessing that you don't play professionally, and are trying to be a profitable rec player. If so, I would ask you this....if you had booked a $200 profit that night, what would you have spent the money on? Whatever that answer is, you'd be well served to just cash out the $200, pretend it's profit, and splurge. Leather jacket, video games, cheap hooker...whatever you're into...indulge.

    I'm also a profit-motivated recreational player, so my approach to bankroll management is to just have a session limit and stick to it. Sometimes I get short stacked, and can't re-buy because of my own self-imposed limits. In those instances, I'll often just cash out, and blow the money on something better than paying off lucky fish.
  • pokerguy1977 Posts: 37Member
    Well said and thanks. But I take issue to the phrase "blow the money on..paying off lucky fish." I never think of myself as blowing my short stack and want to avoid doing so at all costs..that is precisely why I posted this hand. To get some input on whether I was in fact "blowing" my stack on an ill-advised call.

    Yes I'm trying to be a profitable rec player. I too have session limits, but just because one is short stacked it does not necessarily mean one should stop playing. I have turned many a molehill into a mountain. We all try not to "tilt" so I am definitely curious if this hand was me on tilt.

    I think perhaps we can also learn that unless shown otherwise, we should generally not assume a V as described is capable of raising a hand worse than ours in the example, or raising via a semi-bluff..?
  • MikeG Posts: 989Subscriber
    I think that calling preflop is really the only bad decision. Fold or shove both seem fine. Calling seems somewhere between bad and terrible.

    On the flop it is MUBS / Hindsight to assume V can only play this way with a straight. Once you have 80 in the pot lead for 35 *your stack is now 145* and get raised you definitely have to get it in with top pair and open-ended.

    Finally, the bigger issue is probably a mentality thing. If you're steaming/struggling and don't feel like putting more money on the table is in your best interest, you're probably best off putting that $200 in your wallet and heading home.

    Best wishes!
  • BananaStandBananaStand Posts: 1,455Troll
    pokerguy1977 said:
    But I take issue to the phrase "blow the money on..paying off lucky fish."
    Learn to roll with a little hyperbole man. Otherwise, just set my posts to "ignore" like everybody else around here.
    pokerguy1977 said:
    I never think of myself as blowing my short stack and want to avoid doing so at all costs..that is precisely why I posted this hand. To get some input on whether I was in fact "blowing" my stack on an ill-advised call. Yes I'm trying to be a profitable rec player. I too have session limits, but just because one is short stacked it does not necessarily mean one should stop playing.
    I think this qualifies as blowing your stack. Short stack play is a viable and profitable method. It relies heavily on making good preflop plays that are usually all-in, which requires you to be backed up by the ability to re-buy many times. It demands you to accept variance without tilting.

    The other alternative is to be super patient and look for a premium hand or an especially juicy squeeze opportunity. And those don't always come up at these passive live games. Folding and folding hoping for a miracle just doesn't sound like recreation to me. It sounds like tilt.
    pokerguy1977 said:
    I have turned many a molehill into a mountain.
    eh, I'd be willing to bet you've flattened more molehills
    pokerguy1977 said:
    We all try not to "tilt" so I am definitely curious if this hand was me on tilt.
    Probably
    pokerguy1977 said:
    I think perhaps we can also learn that unless shown otherwise, we should generally not assume a V as described is capable of raising a hand worse than ours in the example, or raising via a semi-bluff..?
    No, I think the lesson here is that seeing flops at this stack depth is just a bad idea overall. Either plan to see the whole board, or none of it.
  • Letmewin1 Posts: 1,238Member
    edited July 2016
    I would shove pre if I were to play this hand OOP, MTT style.
    AP
    Just shove the flop.

    Just wanted to add;
    No Shame in leaving when running bad which would lead to playing bad very often, just get up go home let the steam out and come back always another game.
Sign In or Register to comment.