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KK facing all-in on turn in 3-bet pot

AlexB Posts: 160Subscriber
edited July 2016 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
This is a 2/5 at venetian, effective stacks ~1k. Villain in the hand is youngish looking asian most likely in 30's. Thinks he is a good player, I'm not too sure but seems to be decent, a winning player for sure. He recently sat down and my image is neutral. I've seen him raise in position a few times to about 4x BB.

Straddled pot, so effectively 5/10 game. Villain in hi-jack raises to $55 over 1 limper, a bit on the larger side, so I don't think he has air. I am in BB with K K - decided to 3-bet small to $140. Villain thinks for a couple of secs and calls, others fold.

Flop ($300): 8 T T - Hero c-bets $110, Villain quickly calls without much thought
Turn ($520): 8 T T Q - Hero bets $240, Villain thinks for less than 10s and moves All-in for $500 more.

Hero? Is it a mistake to call off another $500 to win $1500... can I get a vote call vs fold?

Quick Poll on Turn decision
  1. Call or Fold11 votes
    1. 1. Call
    2. 2. Fold


  • BananaStandBananaStand Posts: 1,455Troll
    edited July 2016
    Looks like the board changed from flop to turn. Is there a flush draw on the flop or not?
  • dpbuckdpbuck Posts: 2,009Subscriber
    Are there two hearts on the board on the flop? So now the turn has two flush draws on it? If so, this is a call with AJdd AJhh AKdd and AKhh all making NFD+SD type hands.

    If there isn't the flopped flush draw, then it is much closer. I'm still leaning towards a call because of all the draws out there.

  • yoirr Posts: 5Member
    Top of your bluff-catcher range, the turn gave a lot of draws, your pot odds are good...

    Don't think you're too happy to call but I think you have to.

    I feel like a lot of people could argue b/f all streets with hands like KK on this type of board, and it might be correct.. but when you don't have any solid reads except that opponent is potentially a thinking player and you're getting good odds at the top of your range, you need to call imo..

    Would be very interested if anyone could make a good argument why we should b/f. Because I love bet/folding, and I'm starting to realize that might be a big leak in my game.
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    Gona wait for the correction on what the board is to talk about postflop but pre needs to be much larger. IDK why people use every justification to either not 3 bet with overpairs or make the sizing way to small. It's always "I didn't think he had much" or something like that. First I don't think you really know if he has much i think you are just kinda guess based V's image and such. Either way pre needs to be at least 200, 140 is giving far too good of a price.
  • AlexB Posts: 160Subscriber
    Cool, sounds like people are leaning towards a call. @stayinschool I don't mind my small sizing on 3-bet because if I made it $200 he would have folded, which is a disaster if he did.

    I called and he had AJo, turned a double gutshot but obviously it was only 7 outs.
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    I think he probably still calls 200, if he is folding AJo to bets of 200 I would use that sizing as a bluff a lot
  • MrSpecial Posts: 330Subscriber
    I agree that pre should be a little bigger and feel if he calls AJo, he would call at least 50 more. Also you are oop.

    As played with all those draws I feel we have to call as we beat a lot of draws and the board is optimal for him o put pressure on our rather face up hand.
  • AlexB Posts: 160Subscriber
    I have tried larger bet sizes preflop on these tables and simply don't get any action. Remember this is Vegas and not LA or Bay Area... even though stacks are deeper people still fold a lot to larger raises, but in California seems like people call much larger raises preflop even without stack depth, I constantly see people calling like $120 raise with $400 stack which is ludicrous
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