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Advice for Florida games please

FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,433Subscriber
edited July 2016 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
In Florida games I am playing now I keep running into the same scenario which is impacting my winrate fairly hard. about 35% of the time players are either limp calling in multiway pots with AA/KK, limping behind limpers and calling raises with AA/KK, just cold calling behind limpers with limpers left to act with AA/KK. I keep value owning myself and I am not sure what to do. So far in 92 hours of play I have lost 5 rather sizable pots to these situations. And frankly I am not sure how to adjust. I get stuck AK vs AA, or QQ vs KK, QQ vs AA, AQ vs KK on boards that clearly warrant 3 streets of value. Currently I am just playing 1/2 $300 max at the Isle Casino Pompano until we move into to our new home and I get my things in order. Then it's 2/5 my usual game.

I have had a couple hands where I notice the player is actually VERY UNCOMFORTABLE during the hand and I think I got him. He shows AA at showdown and tells me he thought I had a set of blahdy, blah because I raised preflop and the board was Qxx or Kxx. If a regular is tricky ok I know how to deal with them because I am playing with them often. I accept in some situations is it totally acceptable to play a big hand backwards. Very irritating to say the least.

I have never encountered this on the West Coast or online at this magnitude.

I feel as if there is nothing I can do about it and I just should accept that occasionally some TAG or fish is going to make me their bitch. Suggestions?

And if anyone plays at the Isles and would like to get to know me send me a message.
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Comments

  • StreetFighterStreetFighter Posts: 165Subscriber
    Sounds like you're doing it right. Value owning is a part of low stakes play and it should happen from time to time. It sounds like you are getting good cold decked a fair bit too. Pay attention and see what ranges these players are calling 1, 2, and 3 streets with and adjust your frequencies and sizing accordingly with their range vs. Yours. And flop more sets. ☺️
  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,433Subscriber
    Yea, I do that too. Occasionally I overthink these guys. Especially the ones who seem to play competent.
  • PBJTIME Posts: 338Subscriber
    Sounds like run bad to me. Keep playing your game.
  • csteimle Posts: 32Subscriber
    I went through a stretch like this awhile back (not in Florida). It was driving me insane that I kept value owning myself vs passively played premium pairs. Not much you can do. Important to note that if only several hands are impacting your win rate that significantly your sample size is waaay too small to even worry about. In the long term it will only affect your win rate negatively if it causes you to stop value betting.
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    Just have to adjust to the stronger ranges, maybe cut back the value just a bit. I mean if people still call down very light gona have to deal with with value owning yourself and just know that balances out with all the super light call downs. Doesn't sound like that is the case tho, if people are sweating river calls with AA. Probably start bluffing this guys more, aim for more 2 streets of value.

    Also sounds like run bad, my first like 100 hours playing live I ran KK into AA like 5 times and was wonder WTF was going on. Variance.
  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,433Subscriber
    edited July 2016
    There is anywhere from a 1 to 10% chance (averaging 5%) they have AA/KK. My 92 hours = 2900 hands. Doesn't seem that infrequent by the math. There is about a 5% chance I have a really strong hand on any hand I hold. So roughly every 400 hands I should run into slowplayed AA/KK with a worse big hand. If the frequency is ~35% they slowplay then it should have been 3x. I guess it is a little high and I have to hit too.

    I'm running 10bb/hr currently. It was much higher but these scenarios have killed it.

    Just like to double check I am not going crazy.

    But another note I simply can't play scared that they have AA/KK because it is so rare. But the rate these guys slowplay these cards is redonkulous. Never ever seen it this high even in 2004.
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    I mean I would still take 10BB.hr lol
    by 1PBJTIME
  • nofriends333 Posts: 882Troll
    From what i hear the $1 $2 tables in Fla especially seminole hard rock are the softest and worst players on this planet. On the east coast for example (and this is not meant to be sexist) i hate these overweight women that buy in for $300 park their ass on a seat at $1 $2 all day hoping to catch a high hand or by miracle winning the bad beat jackpot while rarely making a dent in their stack because they limp in with $2 here and $1 there
  • DrSpace Posts: 716Subscriber
    Fuzzypup said:
    In Florida games I am playing now I keep running into the same scenario which is impacting my winrate fairly hard. about 35% of the time players are either limp calling in multiway pots with AA/KK, limping behind limpers and calling raises with AA/KK, just cold calling behind limpers with limpers left to act with AA/KK. I keep value owning myself and I am not sure what to do. So far in 92 hours of play I have lost 5 rather sizable pots to these situations. And frankly I am not sure how to adjust. I get stuck AK vs AA, or QQ vs KK, QQ vs AA, AQ vs KK on boards that clearly warrant 3 streets of value. Currently I am just playing 1/2 $300 max at the Isle Casino Pompano until we move into to our new home and I get my things in order. Then it's 2/5 my usual game.

    I have had a couple hands where I notice the player is actually VERY UNCOMFORTABLE during the hand and I think I got him. He shows AA at showdown and tells me he thought I had a set of blahdy, blah because I raised preflop and the board was Qxx or Kxx. If a regular is tricky ok I know how to deal with them because I am playing with them often. I accept in some situations is it totally acceptable to play a big hand backwards. Very irritating to say the least.

    I have never encountered this on the West Coast or online at this magnitude.

    I feel as if there is nothing I can do about it and I just should accept that occasionally some TAG or fish is going to make me their bitch. Suggestions?

    And if anyone plays at the Isles and would like to get to know me send me a message.
    The isle 2/5 is 500 cap and so soft -- can't imagine why you would play the 1/2. Get to know the player pool it is likely a small number of folks playing like this. I have played the Isle 2/5 on occasion waiting for 5/10 and it was very passive but people (re)raised AA. I will be down there in two weeks.
  • Acehole Posts: 99Subscriber
    edited July 2016
    Ya this is becoming quite common in Toronto games and is really pissing me off even at 2/5 guys are limp calling with AA KK QQ AK and AQ. Last year it was limp raising and I guess they realized they weren't getting paid off so now it's turned to limp calling. For a thinking player this can really screw with your reads and I've been burned more than a few times.

    The only salvation I have is that when they have these hands they'll be playing for smaller pots by not raising pre than when I have these hands so I'm still ahead in the long run.
  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,433Subscriber
    I wasn't close to the Isles. I was moving. So I just wanted entertainment. Lots of factors. I wanted to sleep in my own bed to be at full efficiency before I hit 2/5. I poked around for 10 hours to see how it was. I am looking forward to the Isles. Already have notes on one OMC who isn't the C part. Fucker bluffs like his life depends on it.
  • Acehole Posts: 99Subscriber
    edited July 2016
    2 hands I saw this weekend were the rec player got burned doing this and I got one of them.

    First hand I witnessed was a limped pot and the open limper had AA ended up loosing to a Q 9 that made a straight.

    In my hand someone limped up front a few more limpers come along and I check the BB with Q 4 flop Q 4 7 and I stack off A Q.

    I'm not to worried about this and it is frustrating when you can't get away from a hand but it just seems like another creative way for fish to lose money. At the end of the day they're going to let limpers in with garbage and they're not going to be able to fold when they make there hand and they're behind.
  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,433Subscriber
    "Creative way to lose money" LOL

    All my situations were raised pots or 3b pots.

    Examples like some guy who min-raises every hand min-raises, gets 3 callers, and I 3b him with QQ.... He just flatted with AA with players behind. How could I put him on the hand?

    Another is a guy limps after 2 limpers I iso-raise with like KQo and 2 blinds call, 2 limpers fold, he calls with KK.

    One I have to say I super brain farted on. There is one rule that I forgot. It's almost an absolute. A tight uncreative TAG or NIT CRAI on the turn there is no other possible hand he could have except a set or AA no matter how dumb his play looks likes and no matter how much it doesn't make sense. They always have it. And a TAG pulled the strangest play on me where I was convinced due to table dynamics, how he has played, players in the hand, and the board textures that he was making a move with a double draw. Silly me he slowplayed AA at the wrong table, in the wrong spot, at the wrong time, and I outdumbed myself.
  • FreeLunch Posts: 1,309Pro
    Couple of thoughts. Its hard to avoid getting value owned but why are you not also getting it in when they have TT on a 652 board or some such? Variance possible (probable) but is there anything in your game you should look at? - by that I mean are they really only playing AA vs you? Do they see you bluff and value bet thin a lot - and if not why not? I find that in FL even the nits will start playing wider ranges vs me because they think I bluff too much or bet too thin - could something you are doing in the rest of your game be giving them the impression you are easy to trap but they need monsters to trap you? Can you influence them to want to play more hands with you?


    Is this happening to you more when you are in position or out?

    Consider experimenting with much smaller bet sizing against the trappers for a while. If they get frustrated only making 10bb when they have a monster they will start doing things like check-call check-call lead. When you have them doing that you no can start building more medium size pots in position knowing they dont have monsters if they dont lead river and you can value own or bluff as appropriate.


  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,433Subscriber
    edited July 2016
    I know vs trappers you bet smaller. You know I play online and yes the nits online DO adjust. I know they do NOT ship it in with anything but the mega-super nuts on me (95% of the time). How do I know? Bovada lets you see the hand in 24 hours and I record a lot of hands for review.

    This hand I just outdumbed myself plain and simple. I thought he was a better thinking than he was. I also didn't know he was trappy till that hand.

    It just has not happened to me in so long I forgot. So much shit I have to remember for poker. Sometimes you forget a concept. That's why I cut out and save CP magazine articles, write my own notes on plays, keep a journal, etc.
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